Atlas/Polar

[WhaleDriver]

First, there is just as much Kool Aid over at Polar. Second, there are no scabs as a result of your strike, get over it.

There may be a push for ALPA but it will go nowhere. D. Bourne made no real promises, other than having our own Local, but I don't believe we are ready for that, yet. We have guys squealing about assessments for a strike fund, imagine the noise a real assessment to operate our own local will generate.

One of ten flight was 17 minutes late.

[nitty-gritty]

Originally Posted by dumbdumb

Seriously? Talking out the end you shouldn't is what I gather from your post. I'm a good neighbor and return tools when borrowed.

So you say, but I have not seen any behavior like that. Although I think a couple of your guys showed up at a picket line for Amerijet once. Probably for the after party food.

The Atlas side of the house gets roughly a measly ten percent pay hike if and when the arbitrator rules, profit sharing has financial triggers involved, listened to Bourne's koolaid speech to join Teamsters (how's that workin' out for ya), and some work rule improvements.

Has come along very nicely. Grievances on the Atlas side are now getting addressed. ALPA would not spend money on them before. We got the roadblock (Polar) out of the way to get the merger going, allowing us to get the long overdue merged contract done. Who do we have to thank for that long delay = Polar. Even the NMB ruled we are a single carrier despite Polar's actions and assertions otherwise. Screwing both pilot groups collectively from your self centered actions.

Rumor has it that there's going to be another ALPA push after arbitration. Time will tell, I guess.

Take your collective votes and see what you get on the ALPA push. Pilots are always going to b!tch, but the vast majority have seen an improvement with the Teamsters on the Atlas side. Can't say much on the current Polar side since they do not collaborate currently and probably the same after the merger. We complain, but we at Atlas also know we are better off now vs what ALPA was doing to us (maybe better said not doing for us).

Take your numbers you have and lets vote. I know what they are, and how it will turn out. Last time it was 84%. A record for a decertification in the airline industry. My bet is that none of you would spend a dime of your own money to try. Guess what, it takes some money and effort.

So as far as your "garage" is concerned, there's nothing in there to borrow so why even bother.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe your the neighbor that comes over and drinks most of my beer, offends everyone at the party, complains about the lawn, pisses in the pool, pukes on the porch and stumbles just to the edge of the yard to pass out short of his house after being kicked out. Reminds me of a couple of Polar crewmembers at the hotel in Liege.

Having said that, I have no issues with Atlas folks as long as they don't get there almighty wholier than thow attitude going against the Polar folks.

As far as the " almighty wholier than thow attitude" crap, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black.

If you voted to pass your last contract years ago shame on you. That's a question I love to ask when talking to some on the Atlas side of the house when it's brought up. I let them complain and complain then all I do is ask if they voted for it. If they say yes, enough said.

Review this shockwave slide show first. Click on each image to continue to the next.

Presentation to ALPA Executive Council

This has never been disputed on record and no one on the Polar leadership side has been willing to say anything on record, but are completely happy to have their membership continue the lies you insinuate yourself.

I voted for the contract. I also knew Polar was waiting in the wings to fly our equipment. Thank your then MEC Chair B. Fell for me on that. Guess you can't since he got canned for double dipping. More of that integrity thing going on there.

Polar already got 5 of our A/C and South Ameriican routes earlier resulting in furloughs. Then everything was set up to have more moved over during the countdown to strike for Atlas. Where was the solidarity that started this thread in those cases? That goes away when there are upgrades on the Polar side to be had obviously. So I had no confidence that the Polar membership would do the right thing then or now.

Thus my vote due to Polar actions.

If there was ever an ounce of legitimate regret expressed by the Polar leadership/membership, I would not have a problem going forward in a joint respectful effort. That has not happened, thus my total lack of expectations of the Polar group doing the right thing. You collectively just have to be dragged along like so much extra weight holding us back. Your comments pretty much prove that out.

[free at last]

Nitty

Great Post!!!! For all concerned . It is really time to move on and make Atlas, you'r company, a leader in the Freight World, and keep it that Way!

[dumbdumb]

Once again, you're proving your wholier mentality.

You're already insinuating that I am pushing for ALPA. I was only stating something that is circulating. But go ahead and assume that all pilots on the Polar side were happy with what went on.

I have no problem moving on but don't kick sand and insults in my face just because I'm on this side of the fence. Is your way of thinking to stereotype all ethnic races into one category as well? I'm not going to sit here and call you a racist. But come on. To put all of us in one basket is ridiculous!

Get over yourself Nitty. Again, we -- well most of us -- feel we're on the same side. I can't help what our union leadership did. As someone else already stated what's in the past is in the past.

I didn't and won't condone the bull that someone thought was a braniac idea to delay the flights. Personally, I and others shook our heads at this and had a good laugh with it.

I will drink your beer and you're more than welcome to mine. But as far as messing up your lawn or your pool I don't see that happening. So let me guess: Your side doesn't have ANY crewmembers that have messed up on the road? Yeah, that's what I thought. Enough said.

We could go back and forth on the flying being traded across both of the certificates but really, is it worth it? Personally, I don't care. The only thing I'm upset about is the current Captain slots only being awarded to one side. That is completely wrong but I'm sure you're going to find a way to justify it.

The only conclusion I gather from your posts is that you despise Polar pilots. Well, that's too bad as most of us are pretty genuine people just like most of the Atlas side of the house. But as we all know, every airline has it's one percenters. So keep hating. I don't and like to look at things from both perspectives.

Can I borrow a pitcher? Mine was borrowed last night from some Atlas folks. I told them to return it before they departed as they're on a three day layover and my other one is at my son's dorm room.

[3pointlanding]

You are correct in one respect, nitty and a few other Bourne lackies do hate Polar and they also resent the fact that the Polaroids have Long memories. Nothing will change that fact.
As to the grievances, I cannot get the slugs at the teamsters to even return my calls. So much for support.
And as for Atlas being s world freight leader, hah! I do not care how many new airplanes Atlas gets, the mentality will always be third tier. It is the attitude of management, not equipement, tha makes a leader. An Atlas doesn't have it.

[Talon757]

Good grief. I feel like I've stumbled into Flightinfo.com.

Just for the record, it is holier, not "wholier". Doesn't anyone use spell check anymore?

[WhaleDriver]

Time for a group hug..............soon we'll all be on big happy family. But, the question is, will Bob H. ever wear the Atlas ID that he SWORE he would never do?

[dumbdumb]

Yes, I got the guitars out and there will always be the haters. I don't but just becuase a union says we don't have to recognize those who flew struck freight, well, I have my own opinion on that one. It doesn't mean I'm going to hunt you down and let you know but rest assured those are the ones on my no drink list. Not that they care. I'll get the job done when the time comes but that's that.

As for grammar and speeell chking . . .. .well, this I passed the required classes for my degree and as much as I try and watch that type of stuff it will steel get by. Or is it steal? Oh I got it, it's still.

Let's enjoy the good times while they're here. I just saw another base bid for more new hires and Captains for the Atlas side. So enjoy!

[Heracles]

"The polaroids have a long memory"......hmmm
How about this:
- 3% ??,
- or, just for giggles, the PPRUNE SCAB LIST..

Oh, wait, my bad. Those were the "bad polaroids". Kinda like it was just the "bad muslims" on 9/11. Rouge un-authorized zealots. BS

The cool thing is,, I don't have a dog in this fight anymore, but I have an EXCELLENT front row seat. And it is fascinating to be so close, to know so much of the history, to have lived so many of the events personally, to know so many of the people involved,,, it's actually quite entertaining...

To be brutally honest,, I will come clean to all of PPRUNE and admit:

I AM A SCAB (according to polar).

If anyone wants to know what it takes to be labeled a scab by the polar pilots, I will GLADLY tell my story. The law suits are settled, the "alpa war-wings" are in the drawer, etc. So theres probably no harm.

No axe to grind, no agenda, NOTHING TO GAIN.. "Just The Facts, Ma'am"
Now, who wants to click "re-play"?

--heracles

[FirstStep]

If you ain't helping......

If you don't have a "Dog" in the fight anymore, then maybe you should be posting on Forums that you do ( have a Dog in ). There are those in the "here and now", that won't benefit from having the "pot stirred" any more than it already is, yet alone from someone sitting on the out-side. Like the proverbial guy on the outside of a fight, goating the fighters on. I'm hoping to "build" a better relationship with the Polar guys, for everyones sake.
So, move on. Please. Find something you enjoy, that brings you happiness. Why muddle in the past, on percieved slights and wrongs. Unless, that is what motivates you as a person. And if that's so, well, you need something more than this forum can provide.
Just my two cents worth.

[nitty-gritty]

Heracles,

You don't even have to be on the "list" of theirs. You just have to be an Atlas crewmember.

It won't matter what you say with facts or reason. From you, others or their past union ALPA.

They think they are right no matter what. Despite what the ALPA Alternative Dispute Resolution said, what their own strike chairman (who is their TEC guy now) on record said, the past attempted Article 8 on the accused and the ALPA issued Battle Stars to all at Atlas by ALPA. I was going to go through and find the links again, but it obviously would be a waste of time.

There is more on record like the Atlas crews being the only US carrier to hold a sympathy strike for another air carrier in ALPA history (ref ALPA legal dept), but Polar will not believe it nor look introspectively into what they have done in the past and present to harm Atlas crews that is non-brotherly in this over decade long situation. Quick to ask for help, never there when it is asked of them, and always blaming someone else.

They have been and probably always will be that extra weight we have to drag along with us as proven with changing to Teamsters. They pretty much voted as a block of 164 for ALPA. The same ALPA that told them they were wrong on all their scab issues. Probably voted for ALPA only because they were willing to block the merger as they had for years.

As dumbdumb said, "It doesn't mean I'm going to hunt you down and let you know but rest assured those are the ones on my no drink list. Not that they care. I'll get the job done when the time comes but that's that. "

Funny how many take this stand and refer to themselves as not haters. Seems disingenuous, but that is nothing new.

[Heracles]

VERY well stated Nitty..
In fact, clear and concise enough that I think I will quietly return to my "box-seat", this in spite of FirstStep's litany of assumptions about me. I do wonder however how FirstStep would react were his name PUBLISHED as a scab for following to-the-letter alpa's instructions.

I guess it's like I try to teach my grand-daughter, "You gotta be the bigger kid".
-- heracles out

[Flynn747]

Independence Day

To the few of you that had the backbone to take a stand, Thank You.

To the rest of you, we are very disappointed.
Now that the company knows we do not have the guts to stand up to them;
The ability to organize;
Nor the ability to stick together;
They will walk all over us, regardless of what Judge Kasher rules.

We will be just like Joe Muckles other little group, ABX
A new contract,
no scope,
and furloughed quickly.

If any other group tries to organize, please contact us at this e-mail

Sincerely.
[email protected]

[742]

To the rest of you, we are very disappointed.

Who is "we"? The People's Front of Judea?

You are not elected. You hide behind an anonymous user name on a web site based in a different country. And you expect the Polar pilots to follow you? Not to mention Atlas? And thinking that the Kalitta pilots would participate in your illegal job action was bizarre, if not delusional.

I have been through a merger before. Here is what is going to happen. 90%+ of the Atlas pilots and 90%+ of the Polar pilots will work together with no drama. They will drink beer together, they will go find restaurants together. A few subjects will be avoided.

When they get home they will go about their lives for the simple reason that they have one.

The <10% from both organizations will continue to wallow in a cesspool of their own making. The rest will keep an ever increasing distance from them.

That is the future. It has been played out over and over again, and this merger will not be any different.

[CargoMatatu]

Well said, 742.

[Trimix]

You got it right 742 I have found that some people at Atlas/Polar do not want to be happy. They will look for things to bitch about and never be satisfied. YES, things could be better but this is where we are and stirring up the pot over the past has no constructive use. Here's an idea....why not find something positive about the merger and new scba?

Oh, thats right...life sucks ...Atlas is a bunch of scabs, Polar should be stapled to the bottom, We're gonna be furloughed, Bourne sold us out....etc..etc Feel better now??

[Willit Run]

Hey Flynn??
I don't know where your comin from or what you want, but you truely are koooky.
This is called life! Deal with it. Nothing remains the same. Change happens; deal with it.

[Flynn747]

Flynn

It's really sad that there are so many haters on both sides of the house.

We had hoped to come together and force the company to sign the contract as it was negotiated, not as it is assigned by Judge Kasher. This will take both sides of the house to cause enough chaos.

The weak scope clause will be the end of us all. We are sorry that you couldn't understand the cause. Just keep fighting among ourselves, the end is near and management has won.

[free at last]

the End

you might be right!!!!!!

[Intruder]

He also might be wrong. There is NO indication so far that there will be a "weak scope clause"...