Cargo pilot life
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: Kalifornia
flying freight
I have learned to be patient with the general public when the inevitable questions arise about flying cargo. I wish that I had a dollar, no check that, a Euro for every time somebody asked me if I ever aspired to fly commercially!!
I think that the lifestyle at my company is pretty tough though as we are on the road for up to 21 days each month. The constantly changing sleep cycle is the real demon. I have only flown long haul for about a 14 months, and I am now furloughed. But I can say that it is nice to sleep in my bed again each night.
I really enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere on the upper flight deck, and the ability to move around and go to the bunk for rest.
My company flies all over the world and our 744f are pretty damned nice AFAIAC.
Look smart when in public-be smart when in private
I think that the lifestyle at my company is pretty tough though as we are on the road for up to 21 days each month. The constantly changing sleep cycle is the real demon. I have only flown long haul for about a 14 months, and I am now furloughed. But I can say that it is nice to sleep in my bed again each night.
I really enjoy the more relaxed atmosphere on the upper flight deck, and the ability to move around and go to the bunk for rest.
My company flies all over the world and our 744f are pretty damned nice AFAIAC.
Look smart when in public-be smart when in private
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: Malaysia
First Job, fresh out of training from the UK is Cargo, loving every minute of it, flying around Asia in a wide body jet!
Nights, not a problem if I stay on UK time
schedules have been easy to maintain in the whole, loads are good, hotels, comfortable, days off aplenty, pay
Can't remove the
from my face.
Nights, not a problem if I stay on UK time
schedules have been easy to maintain in the whole, loads are good, hotels, comfortable, days off aplenty, pay
Can't remove the
from my face.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: England
Advice?
Hey,
Cargo sounds like a rewarding route! I'm fresh out of training and have somehow found myself with a job offer on a 742F
. Im from the uk and the job is long haul, based from greece with a new start up, I'm young and not married so it seems ideal.
The only worry is that I have been asked to contribute a heavy sum towards the initial TR. This coupled with the relocation and crippling debt is giving me last minute doubts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, the salary is adequate and I realise alot of guys would kill to be in this position. My main concern is that the current 'climate' could leave me high and dry if the company went under in 6 months time.
Personally I think the flying experience alone would be too valuable to miss, I just wondered if there are any pilots out there who may have been through similar situations that could offer me any wisdom?
Cheers, BM
Cargo sounds like a rewarding route! I'm fresh out of training and have somehow found myself with a job offer on a 742F
. Im from the uk and the job is long haul, based from greece with a new start up, I'm young and not married so it seems ideal.The only worry is that I have been asked to contribute a heavy sum towards the initial TR. This coupled with the relocation and crippling debt is giving me last minute doubts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, the salary is adequate and I realise alot of guys would kill to be in this position. My main concern is that the current 'climate' could leave me high and dry if the company went under in 6 months time.
Personally I think the flying experience alone would be too valuable to miss, I just wondered if there are any pilots out there who may have been through similar situations that could offer me any wisdom?
Cheers, BM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi Beastman,
I'd be really cautious, cargo worldwide is taking a hammering.
A start up, using old uneconomical equipment, asking you for money for a type rating that's unlikely to be of any use to you again. And in the current climate they can't get type rated guys?
I can appreciate how exciting a job offer now must be, but do temper it with some cold hard realism.
(I'm lucky enough to be flying the -400 for an Asian freight operator)
Best of luck.
I'd be really cautious, cargo worldwide is taking a hammering.
A start up, using old uneconomical equipment, asking you for money for a type rating that's unlikely to be of any use to you again. And in the current climate they can't get type rated guys?
I can appreciate how exciting a job offer now must be, but do temper it with some cold hard realism.
(I'm lucky enough to be flying the -400 for an Asian freight operator)
Best of luck.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: England
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the advice.
Just in addition, they have written a further TR (A330) into my contract at no cost, which is to replace the 747-200 when it arrives. They are insinuating that the 742f is a temporary measure until the new aircraft is delivered.
Just in addition, they have written a further TR (A330) into my contract at no cost, which is to replace the 747-200 when it arrives. They are insinuating that the 742f is a temporary measure until the new aircraft is delivered.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: EGCC, EGGP, Relocatable to all UK
Could i please ask, especially if there are any recent new to cargo / recent qualified is there a general practice of how you get into the cargo world ?
I wondered if it was found more that passenger pilots moved over to cargo or if it was more likely to have new qualified doing cargo either to stay or awaiting an opening with the passenger airlines.
The cargo world seems to have more of an attraction than passengers to me at the moment.
My other question was with demand, maybe foolishly but i assume there is far more passenger pilot positions (no vacances) than freight ? anyone offer any ideas on numbers or percentages. Would it be harder for me to get a job in cargo being new fatpl or passenger.
If there is any new qualified pilots that have joined cargo be interested in how you found your way in, any differences in requirements / experience, advantages of being a noob
), though any info on how you came to be a cargo pilot.
masocistic i may be but there is attraction to flying handme downs if they are still useds, 707's' 727' even role me out a trident lol, maybe i'm just used to training planes with bits falling off when you breath at them he he
I like to phisicaly fly the plane.
Any advice, background, experience and your thoughts would be very much appreciated.
I'm currently liverpool/manchester based, with not a lot of cargo operators i can spy, is the south more popular ? is there a list of uk operators, fleet, a/c, min job req maybe ?
cheers Ian
I wondered if it was found more that passenger pilots moved over to cargo or if it was more likely to have new qualified doing cargo either to stay or awaiting an opening with the passenger airlines.
The cargo world seems to have more of an attraction than passengers to me at the moment.
My other question was with demand, maybe foolishly but i assume there is far more passenger pilot positions (no vacances) than freight ? anyone offer any ideas on numbers or percentages. Would it be harder for me to get a job in cargo being new fatpl or passenger.
If there is any new qualified pilots that have joined cargo be interested in how you found your way in, any differences in requirements / experience, advantages of being a noob
), though any info on how you came to be a cargo pilot.masocistic i may be but there is attraction to flying handme downs if they are still useds, 707's' 727' even role me out a trident lol, maybe i'm just used to training planes with bits falling off when you breath at them he he
I like to phisicaly fly the plane.
Any advice, background, experience and your thoughts would be very much appreciated.
I'm currently liverpool/manchester based, with not a lot of cargo operators i can spy, is the south more popular ? is there a list of uk operators, fleet, a/c, min job req maybe ?
cheers Ian
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: UK
There's not some mythical split between cargo and pax operations.
All require the same licences, a short haul turboprop pax operation will probably be looking for exactly the same experience from pilots as it's cargo equivalent.
Just like the passenger airlines, cargo airlines vary from turboprops operating locally, to the heavies operating long haul around the world. Many of the majors have their cargo aircraft operated by the same crews who next trip will be taking 400 people on their holidays.
No secrets or special deals, simply jobs advertised and requirements stated. This has all been said before by other posters.
As for lifestyle, I currently have the best pay I have ever received and the best time off. But, long periods down route, away from home and the most boring flying I've ever done. (2 long haul passenger airlines prior to this freight job.)
Beastman, best of luck with it, all airlines did have to be risky start ups once.
Sorry but I have to say it, igarratt, my 12 year old daughter writes and spells considerably better than you.
Take some pride in what you put your name to, there's still those covering letters to write!
All require the same licences, a short haul turboprop pax operation will probably be looking for exactly the same experience from pilots as it's cargo equivalent.
Just like the passenger airlines, cargo airlines vary from turboprops operating locally, to the heavies operating long haul around the world. Many of the majors have their cargo aircraft operated by the same crews who next trip will be taking 400 people on their holidays.
No secrets or special deals, simply jobs advertised and requirements stated. This has all been said before by other posters.
As for lifestyle, I currently have the best pay I have ever received and the best time off. But, long periods down route, away from home and the most boring flying I've ever done. (2 long haul passenger airlines prior to this freight job.)
Beastman, best of luck with it, all airlines did have to be risky start ups once.
Sorry but I have to say it, igarratt, my 12 year old daughter writes and spells considerably better than you.
Take some pride in what you put your name to, there's still those covering letters to write!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: New York
Paying some scumbag start-up for your training is a really big red flag. Especially on a 74 classic. The -200 type rating is different from the -400 and next time fuel spikes, the -200s are beercans and you've just paid a lot of money for a worthless type rating. Of course the company officers are probably making personal kickbacks.
My advice is "don't do it." Take a look at what's happening to Midex. Started out fairly benign, but now rostering and the company are sliding into the abyss.
My advice is "don't do it." Take a look at what's happening to Midex. Started out fairly benign, but now rostering and the company are sliding into the abyss.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
From: VHHH Ocean 2D
I became a FO on the 742F at 21 and left at 25. Without doubt, this was the best time of my life. Pay was significantly less (for me at least) than an equivalent colleague on the passenger side.
The pilots I flew with were the most down-to-earth guys I'd ever flown with. I don't want to seem like I'm putting anyone down (on the air-freight side or road-freight side) but the banter that went on was just like the banter you'd see between a group of lorry-drivers sitting in a greasy spoon.
Excellent personalities and great times in weird and wonderful places away from the tourist trap locations. Very unsociable hours but you get a lot of time off. My average was about 450 hours per year so quite a lot less than pax pilots. Luckily, I had already become un-frozen after flying 732s in the Philippines.. So keep that in mind - especially if you are starting out in a 74X-F.
The cargo industry is taking a hammering and it may take you 3 years before you become unfrozen with 400-500 hours a year.
My advice is to think very very carefully about paying for the TR on a 74X-F. Don't be blinded by the status of being a "Jumbo-Jet" pilot straight after training. I know it's hard but being a start-up airline and being asked to pay for a rating definitely sends alarm bells ringing in my ears.
On one hand, moving to the 744 is my biggest regret. The flying is without doubt the most boring I have ever done. I would gladly move back to the 742F tomorrow with a significant pay reduction. On the other hand, the stability (lack-off) is frightening.
The pilots I flew with were the most down-to-earth guys I'd ever flown with. I don't want to seem like I'm putting anyone down (on the air-freight side or road-freight side) but the banter that went on was just like the banter you'd see between a group of lorry-drivers sitting in a greasy spoon.
Excellent personalities and great times in weird and wonderful places away from the tourist trap locations. Very unsociable hours but you get a lot of time off. My average was about 450 hours per year so quite a lot less than pax pilots. Luckily, I had already become un-frozen after flying 732s in the Philippines.. So keep that in mind - especially if you are starting out in a 74X-F.
The cargo industry is taking a hammering and it may take you 3 years before you become unfrozen with 400-500 hours a year.
My advice is to think very very carefully about paying for the TR on a 74X-F. Don't be blinded by the status of being a "Jumbo-Jet" pilot straight after training. I know it's hard but being a start-up airline and being asked to pay for a rating definitely sends alarm bells ringing in my ears.
On one hand, moving to the 744 is my biggest regret. The flying is without doubt the most boring I have ever done. I would gladly move back to the 742F tomorrow with a significant pay reduction. On the other hand, the stability (lack-off) is frightening.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: Mumbai, INDIA
Out here Cargo operators are def doing well unlike the Pax counterparts.
Apart from a less stress free operation,if the Aircraft are modern & night flying is no burden.Freighter ops is a good option.
regds
MEL.
Apart from a less stress free operation,if the Aircraft are modern & night flying is no burden.Freighter ops is a good option.
regds
MEL.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Canada
I don't fly medium or long haul cargo, but I do short haul in a turboprop. I really have no complaints other than how it can get boring going to the same 2 cities every night, but the schedule is awesome and flying a turboprop in your sweats and a tshirt is always very comfortable.
My day:
9:00pm: Arrive @ airport. Check weather, notams, make and file a flight plan, load the first batch of freight that arrived in a truck with the loadmaster and other pilot.
9:30pm: Relax, watch tv, have a coffee or some supper
10:00pm: Fax arrives with the total weights for the only 2 cities we fly to. Enter in weight and balance on the OFP, determine fuel load, call the fueller.
10:15pm: 2nd truck arrives with the last half of the load. Load up the aircraft, get a clearance.
10:30pm: Departure time off to the first destination.
12:00am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee time
12:45am: Depart for next destination
1:30am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee and snack time
2:00am: Depart for home base
3:30am: Arrival into home base, unload aircraft. Transfer freight loaded into seperate van
4:00am: Aircraft secured, pilots go home. Loader drives van with transfers to the transfer carrier (separate cargo company).
Total duty day: 7 hours
Total flight time: 4.5 hours
Schedule - Monday to Thursday nights
My day:
9:00pm: Arrive @ airport. Check weather, notams, make and file a flight plan, load the first batch of freight that arrived in a truck with the loadmaster and other pilot.
9:30pm: Relax, watch tv, have a coffee or some supper
10:00pm: Fax arrives with the total weights for the only 2 cities we fly to. Enter in weight and balance on the OFP, determine fuel load, call the fueller.
10:15pm: 2nd truck arrives with the last half of the load. Load up the aircraft, get a clearance.
10:30pm: Departure time off to the first destination.
12:00am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee time
12:45am: Depart for next destination
1:30am: Arrival into destination, unload freight for that city, reload freight for originating city. Coffee and snack time
2:00am: Depart for home base
3:30am: Arrival into home base, unload aircraft. Transfer freight loaded into seperate van
4:00am: Aircraft secured, pilots go home. Loader drives van with transfers to the transfer carrier (separate cargo company).
Total duty day: 7 hours
Total flight time: 4.5 hours
Schedule - Monday to Thursday nights
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi all,
Just a quick question, on average a pax carrying pilot will fly near on max hours a year depending on who they fly for. I was just wondering how many hours you guys fly a year. I know it will probably be different for who you work for, and if its long/medium or short haul, but im just after a rough idea.
Thanks in advance
Smiler
Just a quick question, on average a pax carrying pilot will fly near on max hours a year depending on who they fly for. I was just wondering how many hours you guys fly a year. I know it will probably be different for who you work for, and if its long/medium or short haul, but im just after a rough idea.
Thanks in advance
Smiler
Joined: Jan 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 279
Likes: 17
From: Europe
@Smiler737:
Flying for a long haul cargo airline. Switched from the passanger mainline in mid 2007, so the hours that year are not really representative.
2008: 716:29 hours
2009 (up to this day): 316:12 hours
Due to the crisis there is less flying to do this year - unfortunately that does not mean that we have more days off. It's just more days hanging around at some 'exotic' destinations...
Regards,
DBate
Flying for a long haul cargo airline. Switched from the passanger mainline in mid 2007, so the hours that year are not really representative.
2008: 716:29 hours
2009 (up to this day): 316:12 hours
Due to the crisis there is less flying to do this year - unfortunately that does not mean that we have more days off. It's just more days hanging around at some 'exotic' destinations...
Regards,
DBate
