DHL/LH to use B777
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 662
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere in time
Ah ja, sorry, havent seen it.
Yes when I came back to work in germany I joined the privat healt insurance right away, that was in 2005, dont know if it has changed since.
Anyway, you wont find anyone else in germany paying 75K, even in LH you start with less. So compared to the german airlines the deal is not so bad.
In LTU my avarage take home was around 2600-2800€, flying MFF, thats about 1000€ less than what is offered here.
For the rest.....well....thats way I dont fly in germany anymore.
Trotzdem danke, für die Mühe...ach..EAM..bin kein Holländer aus Amsterdam.
cheers
Yes when I came back to work in germany I joined the privat healt insurance right away, that was in 2005, dont know if it has changed since.
Anyway, you wont find anyone else in germany paying 75K, even in LH you start with less. So compared to the german airlines the deal is not so bad.
In LTU my avarage take home was around 2600-2800€, flying MFF, thats about 1000€ less than what is offered here.
For the rest.....well....thats way I dont fly in germany anymore.
Trotzdem danke, für die Mühe...ach..EAM..bin kein Holländer aus Amsterdam.
cheers
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Germany
EAM, sorry didn't want to displace you to the land behind the dikes 
. By the way the t&c with German airlines are one of the reasons, why I am also not working at home anymore.
You are right with your statement that the salary is within what is "normal" for Germany. However keep in mind that the starting salary with LH is usualy for a career starter on a narrow boddy aircraft and not on a B777. Even within LH it usually takes some time to progress to a B747 or A340. As the salary increases with time the pay after, let's say 5 years with LH is considerably higher, for both Capatains and First Officers, and if my information is correct, above what is on offer with AeroLogic. Not to mention the additional benefits, e.g. pension, loss of license, travel deals etc.
It's true, you will always find pilots who are willing to fly for this conditions. It's just a question if, especially as a start up, you can setup an operation like this. Of course you can but there might be a price to pay for and I don't know if it's worth to pay this price. Have a look at Jade Cargo. Rumours are that they have already lost more money with aircraft sitting on the ground due to pilot shortage, than a decent international standard package for t&c would have cost them.
And dear fellow coleagues, please don't get the impression that I am a snobish, overpayed pilot. No, in my opinion everyone deserves decent t&c and more a decent pay, be at on an ATR, a B737 or a B777!
. By the way the t&c with German airlines are one of the reasons, why I am also not working at home anymore.You are right with your statement that the salary is within what is "normal" for Germany. However keep in mind that the starting salary with LH is usualy for a career starter on a narrow boddy aircraft and not on a B777. Even within LH it usually takes some time to progress to a B747 or A340. As the salary increases with time the pay after, let's say 5 years with LH is considerably higher, for both Capatains and First Officers, and if my information is correct, above what is on offer with AeroLogic. Not to mention the additional benefits, e.g. pension, loss of license, travel deals etc.
It's true, you will always find pilots who are willing to fly for this conditions. It's just a question if, especially as a start up, you can setup an operation like this. Of course you can but there might be a price to pay for and I don't know if it's worth to pay this price. Have a look at Jade Cargo. Rumours are that they have already lost more money with aircraft sitting on the ground due to pilot shortage, than a decent international standard package for t&c would have cost them.
And dear fellow coleagues, please don't get the impression that I am a snobish, overpayed pilot. No, in my opinion everyone deserves decent t&c and more a decent pay, be at on an ATR, a B737 or a B777!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 662
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere in time
Thats why is said its the best package after LH, this includes of course the whole Konzern, and by the way, the numbers are only basic, so no overtime mentioned, compare it with 890h on AeroLogic. I thing LH base is around 62-65K per year.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think I'll go for the interview, but they'll have to make a very good offer to convince me.
I don't get why they are being so cheap with pilots' salaries - is cargo-business going that bad? Or do they just copy the standard lowcost-slavery principle of "if you don't like it, there are enough other guys outside who'd take your job"?
I've been working abroad for many years now. And I think I might still be for quite some time. Not that I mind.
I don't get why they are being so cheap with pilots' salaries - is cargo-business going that bad? Or do they just copy the standard lowcost-slavery principle of "if you don't like it, there are enough other guys outside who'd take your job"?
I've been working abroad for many years now. And I think I might still be for quite some time. Not that I mind.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 662
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere in time
is cargo-business going that bad? Or do they just copy the standard lowcost-slavery
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
From: UK
Nightfire is correct; night freighting companies are entirely different from the low cost passenger airlines. There are also a host of compelling reasons why freight pilots should be paid higher salaries. Nor should we lose sight of the fact that Aerologic will be ploughing enormous wealth back into their 2 parent companies!
Bear in mind that Aerologic will be operating these shiny new machines on the privileges of their employees' hard earned licences. So pilots should rightfully expect to be remunerated with a FAIR but decent salary, together with good terms & conditions.
A small price in my opinion for all that expertise, skill and experience!
Bear in mind that Aerologic will be operating these shiny new machines on the privileges of their employees' hard earned licences. So pilots should rightfully expect to be remunerated with a FAIR but decent salary, together with good terms & conditions.
A small price in my opinion for all that expertise, skill and experience!
Last edited by sapco2; 4th April 2008 at 10:39.
Guest
Posts: n/a
The salary is above the standard german salary, companys like Air Berlin, LTU, Eurowings etc pay a lot less than that and LH does not pay much more.
Of course some companies pay less, in Germany or elsewhere, but so what? We're living in a globalized world, we fly international routes, and therefore compare the salary against other international companies.
If somebody wants to return to Germany, he'll make some compromises on the terms and conditions. Depending on how homesick you are, or whatever your reasons may be.
But it's a pilots' market we're in right now. If you go there type-rated and experienced, then obviously you compare this offer to similar offers from other companies elsewhere.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 662
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere in time
Absolutly, you have the choice....5500€ in India or 3800€ in Germany.
If you like India, or Dubai,..well,... good. Trust me, the more reject the offer, the more all companies have to work on their salary, the better for the pilots.
Its only, what did you expect, because so many here in the forum obviously thought they would pay like 5k net for an F/O and 10k for a Cpt, but it was obvious that the salary will be around the "german standart" and its above it.
BTW its long haul cargo, that isnt much different from "normal" long haul, half of the flying is in the night.
If you like India, or Dubai,..well,... good. Trust me, the more reject the offer, the more all companies have to work on their salary, the better for the pilots.
Its only, what did you expect, because so many here in the forum obviously thought they would pay like 5k net for an F/O and 10k for a Cpt, but it was obvious that the salary will be around the "german standart" and its above it.
BTW its long haul cargo, that isnt much different from "normal" long haul, half of the flying is in the night.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: home
hi,
could somebody post how much you have to work for that salary:number of OFF days,Leave etc.
by the way every company has to pay health insurance for their employee e.g if you go private you pay 50% and company pays 50%.
but still to low for widebody command net.
could somebody post how much you have to work for that salary:number of OFF days,Leave etc.
by the way every company has to pay health insurance for their employee e.g if you go private you pay 50% and company pays 50%.
but still to low for widebody command net.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: FRA
Maybe...
Let me add one more point I miss in this talk:
There is still good chance that at least a part of these new 777 jobs go to DLH pilots.
We have a term in our (numerous) working contracts saying that pilot jobs in a company owned by LH by at least 50 percent have to offered to LH pilots (see German Wings). German VC (pilot union) is still negotiating on this matter. As there will be a bunch of CFG returners after change to AB, chances are that a part of aerologic jobs could be reserved for them.
As always. We will see...
There is still good chance that at least a part of these new 777 jobs go to DLH pilots.
We have a term in our (numerous) working contracts saying that pilot jobs in a company owned by LH by at least 50 percent have to offered to LH pilots (see German Wings). German VC (pilot union) is still negotiating on this matter. As there will be a bunch of CFG returners after change to AB, chances are that a part of aerologic jobs could be reserved for them.
As always. We will see...
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Germany
... so A and B scale salaries? wow!
Or would they just put 1% of the 50% to DHL or would 0,1% be enough?
Never mind, I fully understand the LHC pilots being concerned. I would be the same if I would be in their position!
So let's see and wait, a lot of water will be floating down the Elster (local river in LEJ, for those who don't know) in the meantime and they still have a year to go until start.
Or would they just put 1% of the 50% to DHL or would 0,1% be enough?
Never mind, I fully understand the LHC pilots being concerned. I would be the same if I would be in their position!
So let's see and wait, a lot of water will be floating down the Elster (local river in LEJ, for those who don't know) in the meantime and they still have a year to go until start.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Vienna
Well, it seems like they will get enough and experienced guys. They have already around 1800 applications and for the time they have stopped the online application...
I'm curious about the conditions. Not sure if they are already defined!
I'm curious about the conditions. Not sure if they are already defined!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Europe
What is true ?
Hi everybody on pprune interested on Aerologic 777,
-I'd like to know what is base salary and top salary for an F/O ?
-Do we have to live absoloutly around Leipzig ? ( Or, I mean is there a way to commute from an EU country ?)
Many thanks guys for your answers.
Best,
Skylark777
10500 Total Flight Times
& 3900 Hours on B777-200ER
-I'd like to know what is base salary and top salary for an F/O ?
-Do we have to live absoloutly around Leipzig ? ( Or, I mean is there a way to commute from an EU country ?)
Many thanks guys for your answers.
Best,
Skylark777
10500 Total Flight Times
& 3900 Hours on B777-200ER
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Hi Skylark777,
the base salary for F/Os will be 45000€. With your total hours and being rated on 777 you may expect to start between 75000 € and 85000 € total per year. This is the range offered to several other guys with similar experience.
Living in Leipzip area is not a pre-requisite for Aerologic pilots. But you always shuttle on you own costs. This might be expensive as there is no interline agreement so far.
Regards
willibald
the base salary for F/Os will be 45000€. With your total hours and being rated on 777 you may expect to start between 75000 € and 85000 € total per year. This is the range offered to several other guys with similar experience.
Living in Leipzip area is not a pre-requisite for Aerologic pilots. But you always shuttle on you own costs. This might be expensive as there is no interline agreement so far.
Regards
willibald
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Don`t know anymore.....
Guys !
It doesn`t really matter what top/base whatever salary is offered. At the end of the day the taxman takes it all !
Roughfly 50% is common all over Europe, especially Germany. Did a gig there in the 9ties. Really enjoyed it, but the first 6 months is working for the government, only !
For those in the sandpit or further east considering buying a return ticket, think again in terms of housing, school, transport, medical, ticket wso allowance. Pension plan? End of contract handshake ?
All NIL !
It doesn`t really matter what top/base whatever salary is offered. At the end of the day the taxman takes it all !
Roughfly 50% is common all over Europe, especially Germany. Did a gig there in the 9ties. Really enjoyed it, but the first 6 months is working for the government, only !
For those in the sandpit or further east considering buying a return ticket, think again in terms of housing, school, transport, medical, ticket wso allowance. Pension plan? End of contract handshake ?
All NIL !