Polar/atlas Merger Unfair
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"MEC is still fighting the merger, which most agree would be a good thing for both councils.. . . I know all these are "supposedly" good for the Polaroids, but I think their dual purpose, help Polaroids, hurt Atlas."
One reason the Polar MEC is fighting this merger, is to keep the Polar scope clause intact. Polar's scope clause was directly responsible for 100 or so out of work crewmembers to be restored. Does not Polar's MEC have a responsibility to keep their membership employed (as does the Atlas MEC with theirs)?
With regards to AAWW's threatened "furlough game of musical chairs", many of one or the other group will die. . . . whose MEC soap will get you cleaner?
One reason the Polar MEC is fighting this merger, is to keep the Polar scope clause intact. Polar's scope clause was directly responsible for 100 or so out of work crewmembers to be restored. Does not Polar's MEC have a responsibility to keep their membership employed (as does the Atlas MEC with theirs)?
With regards to AAWW's threatened "furlough game of musical chairs", many of one or the other group will die. . . . whose MEC soap will get you cleaner?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have that exactly right ship, the only thing the Polar MEC wants is to make the company adhere to the scope clause, nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately, when you feed from the bottom of the trough, someone is going to get hurt, and therein lies the crux of the problem. I am sure that both MEC's don't want to see anyone lose their job, but it is going to happen. However, each MEC has the responsibility to protect their CBA's. They are vastly different and it is not going to be easy. In the end I am sure that I will never see the inside of another 747 cockpit, I have resigned myself to that fact, but I do want to see my bretherin prosper, both Polar and Atlas.
So keep it civil, respect the other guy's opinion, and look out for the slime from Purchase! Maybe all can get through this.
So keep it civil, respect the other guy's opinion, and look out for the slime from Purchase! Maybe all can get through this.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only thing the Polar MEC wants is to make the company adhere to the scope clause, nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately, when you feed from the bottom of the trough, someone is going to get hurt, and therein lies the crux of the problem. I am sure that both MEC's don't want to see anyone lose their job, but it is going to happen. However, each MEC has the responsibility to protect their CBA's.
Atlas VARS March 02, 2007 in streaming mp3
I don't believe Bob is "protecting his CBA or his pilot group" I believe he has his own agenda. I have always believed that. NO slam intended. And not to be argumentative but there is more of a reason.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: atlanta
Age: 58
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After hearing the Vars I'm kind of curious on what the Atlas and DHL MEC have to talk about. Atlas MEC needs reminding that DHL bought half of Polar,, not Atlas. What did the MEC's talk about??? If you think the companys are merging your "whistling dixie". They bought Polar in 2001, Management would have merged them already if they wanted them merged.
Personally,, Look for management to "dish off" the other 51%.
Personally,, Look for management to "dish off" the other 51%.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After hearing the Vars I'm kind of curious on what the Atlas and DHL MEC have to talk about. Atlas MEC needs reminding that DHL bought half of Polar,, not Atlas. What did the MEC's talk about??? If you think the companys are merging your "whistling dixie". They bought Polar in 2001, Management would have merged them already if they wanted them merged.
The Atlas MEC met with DHL MEC because they were invited.
And the company (Atlas) has consistantly said (since Nov 2004) that they intend to merge the seniority lists. At various times both pilots groups have said that they don't believe it, but the company has been consistent on this one thing at least.
What the Polar MEC needs to remember is in your guote
They bought Polar in 2001
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 3rd Mar 2007 at 17:28.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: US
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“What it will not contain is pilots.”
Well, not quite right ether. The petition to move routes, rights and authorities from Polar Cargo too Polar World Wide has been made to the DOT, but approximately 72 hours later an amendment was filed to clarify that the crews and their CBA go with. Not disclosing any secrets here. It’s all public knowledge.
“The pilots to fly the "Polar World Wide" aircraft will come from the merged Atlas/Polar seniority list.”
If and when there is a combined or merged if you will, contract. No secret here ether or shouldn’t be to the Polar / Atlas folks. If you are a card carrying ALPA member, you have access to the Merger and Fragmentation policy. I may have no vested interest in this, but I am an ALPA member in good standing and plan on keeping it that way, so there will be no quotes from the policy. If you pay your dues, you have the right to the news.
“So, discussion with the leadership of that merged list is a good idea from the DHL perspective.”
Right up to the point that it looks like it’s not going to work according to their time line. We all would like to think that our respective airlines are the end all to air commerce and our MEC / LEC has the master plan to keep member and company pointed in the right direction, but on a global scale, you ether work together or you get cut out. DHL’s proposed partial purchase of a US citizen company through its North American US citizen company opens the door to a vast number of possibilities and opportunities, plane and crew is simply frosting on the cake. You really didn’t think that DHL is going to hang their hat on one hook do you? If you folks don’t want to go through that door with them, then I’m sure that a competitor(s) will if they get the invite.
“The Atlas MEC met with DHL MEC because they were invited.”
Whether this true or not, DHL will do what any other company would do in this boat. They will try to engage all parties in discussion, and if that doesn’t work then individual parties. If that doesn’t work, then all bets are off and they will look for another play ground with a different sand box. Good luck.
Well, not quite right ether. The petition to move routes, rights and authorities from Polar Cargo too Polar World Wide has been made to the DOT, but approximately 72 hours later an amendment was filed to clarify that the crews and their CBA go with. Not disclosing any secrets here. It’s all public knowledge.
“The pilots to fly the "Polar World Wide" aircraft will come from the merged Atlas/Polar seniority list.”
If and when there is a combined or merged if you will, contract. No secret here ether or shouldn’t be to the Polar / Atlas folks. If you are a card carrying ALPA member, you have access to the Merger and Fragmentation policy. I may have no vested interest in this, but I am an ALPA member in good standing and plan on keeping it that way, so there will be no quotes from the policy. If you pay your dues, you have the right to the news.
“So, discussion with the leadership of that merged list is a good idea from the DHL perspective.”
Right up to the point that it looks like it’s not going to work according to their time line. We all would like to think that our respective airlines are the end all to air commerce and our MEC / LEC has the master plan to keep member and company pointed in the right direction, but on a global scale, you ether work together or you get cut out. DHL’s proposed partial purchase of a US citizen company through its North American US citizen company opens the door to a vast number of possibilities and opportunities, plane and crew is simply frosting on the cake. You really didn’t think that DHL is going to hang their hat on one hook do you? If you folks don’t want to go through that door with them, then I’m sure that a competitor(s) will if they get the invite.
“The Atlas MEC met with DHL MEC because they were invited.”
Whether this true or not, DHL will do what any other company would do in this boat. They will try to engage all parties in discussion, and if that doesn’t work then individual parties. If that doesn’t work, then all bets are off and they will look for another play ground with a different sand box. Good luck.
This Thread Sucks!!!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the risk of flogging the deceased Equus caballus, I must say that it seems like anytime the tone of the thread goes the least little bit against one group they seem to have a penchant for calling for it to be deleted or closed. Yet I noticed when the “scab announcer” posted his vitriol on here, there was a dearth of the same type of comments from that same group. Go figure.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Navarre
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just received the new Polar VARS, verrrrrry interesting. It seems that DHL was under the impression that the two airlines have already merged and Bourne was selected to be the spoksman for both groups. Henderson put them straight. I wonder where DHL got that impression. Hm-m-m-m-m
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by layinlow
Just received the new Polar VARS, verrrrrry interesting. It seems that DHL was under the impression that the two airlines have already merged and Bourne was selected to be the spoksman for both groups. Henderson put them straight. I wonder where DHL got that impression. Hm-m-m-m-m
Actually, Dave Bourne was selected by the Global Pilots Alliance Advisory Board to represent the Atlas and Polar pilots. He did not solicit the position. They extended it to Bourne knowing full well who Bobb Henderson is and who he represents along with the status of the merger. Read what you want into that. It might not be what you want to hear.
Bobb's own self admittance that he crashed the meeting proved to be yet another example of how civil the Atlas MEC has been to the Polar MEC. Instead of having him removed, they let him stay. That proved even more beneficial because of how he then behaved to other airline pilot groups in attendance. As an example during the meeting: while Bobb was talking to one of the invited DHL MEC members in a group, he was unaware that one of the invited ABX council was standing there as he berated ABX and called them the "S" word comparing the ABX-DHL situation to the Atlas-Polar situation. I applaud the ABX member for not punching Bobb in the mouth, although I would understand if he did. There are others, but this one really stood out from the others.
For the guys in Europe that might be interested. They may not want to spend the money calling the phone vars from over there.
Polar March 7, 2007 streaming MP3
Atlas March 2, 2007 streaming MP3
Last edited by mercpc9; 12th Mar 2007 at 21:04.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Henderson owes an explanation to ABX pilots
Would somebody kindly extend an invitation to Mr. Henderson to EXPLAIN his comment concerning ABX pilots? I would LOVE to hear his views on the matter and where he might have got that impression!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that Bobb has some explaining to do. He is fighting hard to keep his group together and solid behind him. To do that though, he has become exactly what he is fighting - which is often the case in politics. He has now blatantly lied to his group on their VARS.
I actually know a bit about this one and what Merc says is true. Bourne was initially invited by the DHL folks, and he MADE IT A POINT TO TELL THEM WHO BOBB WAS, AND WHAT HE DID FOR THE POLAR FOLKS.
So Bobb is being disengenuous when he says that the they did not know who he was when they invited Bourne to his meeting. I hope he gets what he wants - unfortunately plan B has not even come to a pus filled pimple yet. Rest assured that if he keeps up his antics it most certainly will.
I actually know a bit about this one and what Merc says is true. Bourne was initially invited by the DHL folks, and he MADE IT A POINT TO TELL THEM WHO BOBB WAS, AND WHAT HE DID FOR THE POLAR FOLKS.
So Bobb is being disengenuous when he says that the they did not know who he was when they invited Bourne to his meeting. I hope he gets what he wants - unfortunately plan B has not even come to a pus filled pimple yet. Rest assured that if he keeps up his antics it most certainly will.
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 13th Mar 2007 at 04:54.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: atlanta
Age: 58
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merc,, Ive never heard of any Global pilots board. Bourne doesnt represent Polar pilots in any way shape or form!!
As far as Bob "fighting" to keep us together and solid behind him. Trust me,,, We are VERY solid and behind him. He does EXCELLENT work for his pilot group. Glad we have him.
As far as Bob "fighting" to keep us together and solid behind him. Trust me,,, We are VERY solid and behind him. He does EXCELLENT work for his pilot group. Glad we have him.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“Merc,, Ive never heard of any Global pilots board.”
whaledriver101, allow me to enlighten you...
Global Cargo Pilot Alliance
http://www.globalcargopilots.org/
(you may notice that the current Chairman is with Teamsters Local 1224. That’s the ABX pilots’ union)
Now go tell Bobb that at least one ABX pilot is awaiting an explanation….
”as he berated ABX and called them the "S" word comparing the ABX-DHL situation to the Atlas-Polar situation.”
whaledriver101, allow me to enlighten you...
Global Cargo Pilot Alliance
http://www.globalcargopilots.org/
(you may notice that the current Chairman is with Teamsters Local 1224. That’s the ABX pilots’ union)
Now go tell Bobb that at least one ABX pilot is awaiting an explanation….
”as he berated ABX and called them the "S" word comparing the ABX-DHL situation to the Atlas-Polar situation.”
Last edited by penguin22; 13th Mar 2007 at 23:34. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Merc,, Ive never heard of any Global pilots board. Bourne doesnt represent Polar pilots in any way shape or form!!
As far as Bob "fighting" to keep us together and solid behind him. Trust me,,, We are VERY solid and behind him. He does EXCELLENT work for his pilot group. Glad we have him.
As far as Bob "fighting" to keep us together and solid behind him. Trust me,,, We are VERY solid and behind him. He does EXCELLENT work for his pilot group. Glad we have him.
Just in case folks were not aware of his latest actions:
Recent Polar grievance to take Atlas Jobs again in PDF
Bourne IS going to represent you soon. You don't seriously think that the Atlas pilots will vote in Bobb after all he has done for them do you?
Good luck to us all - it is long past time to bury the hatchett but if Bobb continues in this manner it will never happen.