Polar/atlas Merger Unfair
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Let's not turn this into another childish rhetoric thread.
I'm glad you guys got the money that was owed to you. As you say the CBA had to be honored and the arbitrator(s) helped you do that. As per the CBA they could not not furlough out of seniority. When the Classics were parked, all FEs would have had to be kept on the payroll until the last junior guy/girl transitioned to the 400. Also all FEs that met the mins to go to the right seat, seniority permitting , had to be trained. So JC tried to save some money and terminated all FEs that didn't meet the mins to upgrade. It didn't work and the arbitrator(s) made him reinstate them all. In the end JC didn't lose anything since he would have had to pay you guys as long as someone junior to you had to be cross trained. He merely gave you back what he was supposed to give you all along.
Now, the Kasher arbitration was the most important one. If he had ruled in PO's favor then AAWH would have had to bring back airplanes on the PO side until a merger would take place. That was the one you needed to win to get everybody back in the seat. It didn't turn out that way, he ruled against you, and I'm sure your MEC will fight it while AAWH will do all it can to keep the planes where they are (ok maybe minus 355). Will you win at the end? I don't know. Will everybody be recalled? I don't think so and, as I've written in a previous post, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. But you need to understand the difference between "reinstatement" and "recall". You guys were wrongfully terminated and were reinstated. The FOs benefited from that ruling, great. Back pay for them is way better than expected but the majority might not get their job back, at least right now.
I've obviously been gone far too long to know exactly what's happening there anymore (am I glad I left before all this s#*t happened even though I'd still have a job), but I still keep in touch with many of you. Just last week an FO called me to tell me he had just gotten off the phone with the CP to check in for a class date and the answer he got was "I don't know what your MEC is telling you but there is no class date for you, you're not coming back".
Wish you all the best and I'll repeat myself to the ones who found a job elsewhere, DON'T QUIT your new employer for now. Take the $$ while their coming and see what happens next.
Cheerios!
I'm glad you guys got the money that was owed to you. As you say the CBA had to be honored and the arbitrator(s) helped you do that. As per the CBA they could not not furlough out of seniority. When the Classics were parked, all FEs would have had to be kept on the payroll until the last junior guy/girl transitioned to the 400. Also all FEs that met the mins to go to the right seat, seniority permitting , had to be trained. So JC tried to save some money and terminated all FEs that didn't meet the mins to upgrade. It didn't work and the arbitrator(s) made him reinstate them all. In the end JC didn't lose anything since he would have had to pay you guys as long as someone junior to you had to be cross trained. He merely gave you back what he was supposed to give you all along.
Now, the Kasher arbitration was the most important one. If he had ruled in PO's favor then AAWH would have had to bring back airplanes on the PO side until a merger would take place. That was the one you needed to win to get everybody back in the seat. It didn't turn out that way, he ruled against you, and I'm sure your MEC will fight it while AAWH will do all it can to keep the planes where they are (ok maybe minus 355). Will you win at the end? I don't know. Will everybody be recalled? I don't think so and, as I've written in a previous post, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. But you need to understand the difference between "reinstatement" and "recall". You guys were wrongfully terminated and were reinstated. The FOs benefited from that ruling, great. Back pay for them is way better than expected but the majority might not get their job back, at least right now.
I've obviously been gone far too long to know exactly what's happening there anymore (am I glad I left before all this s#*t happened even though I'd still have a job), but I still keep in touch with many of you. Just last week an FO called me to tell me he had just gotten off the phone with the CP to check in for a class date and the answer he got was "I don't know what your MEC is telling you but there is no class date for you, you're not coming back".
Wish you all the best and I'll repeat myself to the ones who found a job elsewhere, DON'T QUIT your new employer for now. Take the $$ while their coming and see what happens next.
Cheerios!
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A few minor points
Let's not turn this into another childish rhetoric thread.
So JC tried to save some money and terminated all FEs that didn't meet the mins to upgrade.
Now, the Kasher arbitration was the most important one.
I'm sure your MEC will fight it
Will you win at the end? I don't know. Will everybody be recalled? I don't think so
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Agreed, it's hard to fight a binding arbitration. So let's say they'll make believe they do to keep the troups happy?
Good luck to your side too.
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Actually the problem is and always has been that there are too many "sides" to this whole story. I just wish we could have all gotten together in the beginning when I proposed that we put the Polar communication guy on our committee and our guy on their comms committee. Unfortunately that died a quick death. I guess like all pilots someone saw a way to get a leg up on someone else (or like all humanity for that matter) and leaped at it. Too bad - that was what the company was counting on. And it worked well for them; and is still working for them.
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I agree about the childish thread. I wasn't trying to start something, just give an observation. As for the FE's being offerred a furlough, true, but with a caveat. The union had to agree not to contest AAWH's plans on transferring Polar assets (whatever they were) to Atlas, which was against our CBA. So the FE's had two choices, one get furloughed never to be recalled, or take the termination and our chances the management was wrong. Given the choices, the latter was the only choice.
But Atlas is getting their pound of flesh now. When were terminated we drew unemployment and when we were reinstated, AAWH deducted the amount of unemployment from our checks to repay the state. Now our W-2 show us being paid the unemployment, and they never did pay back the state, although that was the agreement. If effect, we are having to pay tax on money we never received. Just so you know what kind of slie both unions are dealing with. Thank goodness I am over here where there is integrety.
But Atlas is getting their pound of flesh now. When were terminated we drew unemployment and when we were reinstated, AAWH deducted the amount of unemployment from our checks to repay the state. Now our W-2 show us being paid the unemployment, and they never did pay back the state, although that was the agreement. If effect, we are having to pay tax on money we never received. Just so you know what kind of slie both unions are dealing with. Thank goodness I am over here where there is integrety.
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As for the FE's being offerred a furlough, true, but with a caveat. The union had to agree not to contest AAWH's plans on transferring Polar assets (whatever they were) to Atlas, which was against our CBA. So the FE's had two choices, one get furloughed never to be recalled, or take the termination and our chances the management was wrong. Given the choices, the latter was the only choice.
But Atlas is getting their pound of flesh now. When were terminated we drew unemployment and when we were reinstated, AAWH deducted the amount of unemployment from our checks to repay the state.
Now our W-2 show us being paid the unemployment, and they never did pay back the state, although that was the agreement. If effect, we are having to pay tax on money we never received.
As far as integrity I totally agree with you. Integrity, leadership, stewardship, business plan, honesty, ethics, - all those are words that are foreign to Atlas corporate culture. It would be lovely to think that the new third floor will change that culture and impose it on the second floor.
Good luck to you wherever you are. And good luck to the rest of us poor slobs too old to go anywhere else.
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No, we didn't get the money. they kept it to "repay the state". But accoding to the state they never did. Oh well, and thanks again for the words. If you are still at AAWH then I wish you all the best.
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It was about the Polar franchise expanding via the use of Atlas crews to fly Polar freight on Polar routes under a Polar call sign while Polar pilots were actively being furloughed
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How about Polar crews flying Atlas 400/200, transfered to the Polar side and you guys where real happy to fly the aircraft, while Atlas crews are on the street . Furthermore all Polar 400 were originally slotted for Atlas Air, when GE picked the slots from Atlas, and the rest is history. And you are still flying one of the Atlas Air B747-400 N496MC. MC Stands for Micheal Choudry, creator and the hard working Chairman of Atlas Air Inc. God Rest His Soul
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It was about the Polar franchise expanding via the use of Atlas crews to fly Polar freight on Polar routes under a Polar call sign while Polar pilots were actively being furloughed
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Mr. Chowdry had died six years ago - 01/2001 (I can remember seeing the smoke from my DEN hotel room), / Polar was purchased about six months later - 07/2001.
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I think MC wanted it all - I think that buying Polar was next in line after his failed attempt to sell us to FedEx and be the President of FedEx World Wide - that is where the negotiations supposedly broke down.
The deal for Polar was 84 mil with 30 mil of forgiven debt and debt free airplanes. This smacks of Michael - he always wanted to deal with the big dogs. This is one reason he was so successful selling his product in Asia. And he was a fan of good deals. 54 mil for an entire airline was about what he paid for one of his converted freighters 534MC I think - so I am sure he would have seen it as a good deal even as a break up. His death probably put the whole thing into the tailspin it has been in since then. He was no dummy and I bet he saw the writing on the wall. But who can say.....
He was a great salesman. But he thought all of us (pilots) were glorified truck drivers. I wonder what he thinks now?
The deal for Polar was 84 mil with 30 mil of forgiven debt and debt free airplanes. This smacks of Michael - he always wanted to deal with the big dogs. This is one reason he was so successful selling his product in Asia. And he was a fan of good deals. 54 mil for an entire airline was about what he paid for one of his converted freighters 534MC I think - so I am sure he would have seen it as a good deal even as a break up. His death probably put the whole thing into the tailspin it has been in since then. He was no dummy and I bet he saw the writing on the wall. But who can say.....
He was a great salesman. But he thought all of us (pilots) were glorified truck drivers. I wonder what he thinks now?
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 1st Feb 2007 at 06:20.
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Must have been one vary tall hotel.
Well Front Range Airport is about 20 miles from Commerce City and much closer to DIA although there were few hotels that close to DIA at the time. Probably could have seen the smoke from downtown Denver from one of the high floors - still would have been 20+ miles away.
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Free at last
When did you guys go on strike? I certainly don't remember it. Either way, you better start looking forward, not back, you might just get hit by the JC truck coming down the road
When did you guys go on strike? I certainly don't remember it. Either way, you better start looking forward, not back, you might just get hit by the JC truck coming down the road
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Well Front Range Airport is about 20 miles from Commerce City and much closer to DIA although there were few hotels that close to DIA at the time. Probably could have seen the smoke from downtown Denver from one of the high floors - still would have been 20+ miles away.
(the crash was also breaking news on local TV at the time)
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Atlas's shares had traded then at about $36/share. . . .today. . .about $47/share.
Last edited by ship's power; 1st Feb 2007 at 16:33.
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Well at the time we were told that Tricky Ricky and Chowdry were best friends and that they had some previous history togehter.
Schuyler had no financial expertise.
Atlas shares traded at almost $65 when Chowdry was alive.
And we never went on strike trashhauler. Freeatlast said "on the street" meaning furloughed.
Schuyler had no financial expertise.
Atlas shares traded at almost $65 when Chowdry was alive.
And we never went on strike trashhauler. Freeatlast said "on the street" meaning furloughed.
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That is exactly the point , the Atlas crews suffered, on furlough!!!!, while the Polar crews went to the Bank often, with a pre- strike Polar pay increase of 3+% to keep the Atlas/Polar fleet operational.So move on and make your company successfull. It is possible you know!!
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Ah contrair my friend. The 3% was incentive for us to extend the CBA negotiations until they could work with your council. Then they, reneged (that was our first indication of the slime we were working with and you were suffering under). Just because Delta furloughed did not mean that I did not fly Delta. Same with ya'll. Now had you struck, then that would have been another baliwick. I would have been right beside you.