Emerald and the CAA
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the CAA got a general picture of Emerald and eventually got so annoyed, they pulled the plug.
I cannot think of a similar situation, so they must have been pretty sure of themselves to take such drastic action. Let's face it, they aren't exactly known for taking companies to task. Individual's maybe but not whole organisations.
I'm afraid Emerald was always on borrowed time with MOB in place, it was well known what a shambles the records system was in. I remember asking for copies of my records after I left and being told that didn't have a clue where they were and that most of the current crew training records were also missing........
The operation WAS unsafe most of the time. I certainly had a large number of worries about both mine and other crews safety. The only reason there weren't more accidents is down to luck and skill, rather than design.
It was rubbish 18 months ago, I can't imagine it got any better.
I cannot think of a similar situation, so they must have been pretty sure of themselves to take such drastic action. Let's face it, they aren't exactly known for taking companies to task. Individual's maybe but not whole organisations.
I'm afraid Emerald was always on borrowed time with MOB in place, it was well known what a shambles the records system was in. I remember asking for copies of my records after I left and being told that didn't have a clue where they were and that most of the current crew training records were also missing........
The operation WAS unsafe most of the time. I certainly had a large number of worries about both mine and other crews safety. The only reason there weren't more accidents is down to luck and skill, rather than design.
It was rubbish 18 months ago, I can't imagine it got any better.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fair play to the crews some of the defects you guys carried to keep the show on the road were outstanding
K: .
some should really have gone in the tech log and grounded the A/c for the night , but hey at least if it all went T**ts up MOB would have backed you up
....!!!
as mentioned earlier in this thread emerald didn't do well and keep going because of MOB it carried on in spite of him.
mainly down to crews and engineers who were willing to carry things to keep the flying program on track.
Maybe in that respect we were our own worst enemy......if you cover for the deficiencies the management are blind to them.
K: .some should really have gone in the tech log and grounded the A/c for the night , but hey at least if it all went T**ts up MOB would have backed you up
....!!!as mentioned earlier in this thread emerald didn't do well and keep going because of MOB it carried on in spite of him.
mainly down to crews and engineers who were willing to carry things to keep the flying program on track.
Maybe in that respect we were our own worst enemy......if you cover for the deficiencies the management are blind to them.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Liverpool
Age: 67
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Germstone
fair play to the crews some of the defects you guys carried to keep the show on the road were outstanding K: .
some should really have gone in the tech log and grounded the A/c for the night , but hey at least if it all went T**ts up MOB would have backed you up ....!!!
as mentioned earlier in this thread emerald didn't do well and keep going because of MOB it carried on in spite of him.
mainly down to crews and engineers who were willing to carry things to keep the flying program on track.
Maybe in that respect we were our own worst enemy......if you cover for the deficiencies the management are blind to them.
K: .some should really have gone in the tech log and grounded the A/c for the night , but hey at least if it all went T**ts up MOB would have backed you up
....!!!as mentioned earlier in this thread emerald didn't do well and keep going because of MOB it carried on in spite of him.
mainly down to crews and engineers who were willing to carry things to keep the flying program on track.
Maybe in that respect we were our own worst enemy......if you cover for the deficiencies the management are blind to them.
If i remember correctly if a A/C went tech and a flight couldnt be covered the brown smelly stuff really hit the fan next morning,threats of sackings etc,mob even threatened someone who DIDNT (and not a contractor either) work for Emerald with the sack when both pax ATP's went tech a couple of years ago
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
say again slowly, youve come up with another great reply. I worked for Emerald for 5 years and never once felt the aircraft was unsafe. Sure we carried defects but never to the point were we as a crew were concerned for our safety. If that had of been the case we would of made the genius decision to .... not go!! There were times when this was the case and ops, once they realised the problems, agreed that the flight could not go.
It seems such a shame that at a time when lots a people are worrying about how to pay their mortgage, the vultures are around saying how bad the company was. Ask yourself a question....who is worse the guy who puts pressure on the pilots to fly aircraft that may be unserviceable, or the pilot that flies an unserviceably aircraft.
Well, I personally am very sorry to see Emerald in this position and wish all the best to the guys and girls and hope they get new jobs asap.
It seems such a shame that at a time when lots a people are worrying about how to pay their mortgage, the vultures are around saying how bad the company was. Ask yourself a question....who is worse the guy who puts pressure on the pilots to fly aircraft that may be unserviceable, or the pilot that flies an unserviceably aircraft.
Well, I personally am very sorry to see Emerald in this position and wish all the best to the guys and girls and hope they get new jobs asap.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High n Low,
Sorry, but getting into machines where you know there are problems, but there is no information in the Techlogs, databases out of date by years, problems that are supposedly "fixed" in one machine, but you then find in another because it's just been passed around. Is not acceptable.
I remember a 748 flying around after the main door had come off it's supports, one that had been hit by a ground handling vehicle and yet when the crews complained, they were threatened. If that is acceptable, then I suggest you're in the wrong business.
Any decent company wouldn't even blink if you said you weren't flying such a machine.
Who's worse? To be honest they are as bad as each other, but the management team, must take the lion's share of the moral responsibility, if not the legal responsibility.
I'll just clarify my thoughts, I was often more worried for people's licences and livelihoods than their lives as they would be the fall guys initially if any "problems" were found. Something that unfortunately has come to pass.
Sorry, but getting into machines where you know there are problems, but there is no information in the Techlogs, databases out of date by years, problems that are supposedly "fixed" in one machine, but you then find in another because it's just been passed around. Is not acceptable.
I remember a 748 flying around after the main door had come off it's supports, one that had been hit by a ground handling vehicle and yet when the crews complained, they were threatened. If that is acceptable, then I suggest you're in the wrong business.
Any decent company wouldn't even blink if you said you weren't flying such a machine.
Who's worse? To be honest they are as bad as each other, but the management team, must take the lion's share of the moral responsibility, if not the legal responsibility.
I'll just clarify my thoughts, I was often more worried for people's licences and livelihoods than their lives as they would be the fall guys initially if any "problems" were found. Something that unfortunately has come to pass.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Costa Del Mersey
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
say again slowly, I can only speak from my own experience, I am certainly no fan of emeralds management, however, I never felt pressured to take an aircraft which I felt was unsafe or needed engineering.
There was a culture of "get the job done" but as the guys you spoke to in ops were mainly young lads, they, to my knowledge, never put pressure on crews to carry an unsafe fault.
The only pressure I felt was that our jobs depended on the contracts and not letting the customer down.
I cannot remember being coerced by management to taking an aircraft that i was unhappy with, maybe you had a different experience?
There was a culture of "get the job done" but as the guys you spoke to in ops were mainly young lads, they, to my knowledge, never put pressure on crews to carry an unsafe fault.
The only pressure I felt was that our jobs depended on the contracts and not letting the customer down.
I cannot remember being coerced by management to taking an aircraft that i was unhappy with, maybe you had a different experience?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Costa Del Mersey
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just read your last post, the 748 which i recall being hit by the loading belt was worked on by engineers all night and signed off before being returned to service, maybe we are talking about different incidents.
The out of date datbases in the sheds were out of date because they were noy RNAV approved and the GPS only for interest. The 748s were RNAV eqipped and were updated.
To repeat, I am not defending the mis-management of the company and was very unahppy about some of the things that went on, (including what happend to you SAS)
but some criticisms seem a little unfair.
The out of date datbases in the sheds were out of date because they were noy RNAV approved and the GPS only for interest. The 748s were RNAV eqipped and were updated.
To repeat, I am not defending the mis-management of the company and was very unahppy about some of the things that went on, (including what happend to you SAS)
but some criticisms seem a little unfair.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: the pub
Age: 57
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a culture of "get the job done" but as the guys you spoke to in ops were mainly young lads, they, to my knowledge, never put pressure on crews to carry an unsafe fault.
The penalty for not doing as we were told? I'll leave it to your imagination.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I assumed the 748 would be the same as a shed was in relation to the GPS's.
I am not and will not slag off the pilots, since I know full well what pressures they were put under on a regular basis. I think most people acted as best they could in very trying circumstances.
I was certainly aware of many attempts to try and pressurise crews from the Op's dept, but that was only because of the quite frankly ridiculous scrutiny they were under. It wasn't out of a desire to break rules, but out of a need to protect themselves and unfortunately totally understandable.
It is very obvious who is to blame for the current disaster and he definately wasn't flight crew.
euroman,
My references and the cheque I recieved would say something else about my departure and anyway many see getting the boot from MOB as a badge of honour!
I am not and will not slag off the pilots, since I know full well what pressures they were put under on a regular basis. I think most people acted as best they could in very trying circumstances.
I was certainly aware of many attempts to try and pressurise crews from the Op's dept, but that was only because of the quite frankly ridiculous scrutiny they were under. It wasn't out of a desire to break rules, but out of a need to protect themselves and unfortunately totally understandable.
It is very obvious who is to blame for the current disaster and he definately wasn't flight crew.
euroman,
My references and the cheque I recieved would say something else about my departure and anyway many see getting the boot from MOB as a badge of honour!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Say again s l o w l y
High n Low,
I remember a 748 flying around after the main door had come off it's supports,
I remember a 748 flying around after the main door had come off it's supports,
was closely inspected by the quality manager and tech services department.
was decided as there was no spares and the A/C was needed in service to carry the defect as a non mel defect and the crew freight door to remain locked at all times except in case of emergency all loading to be done through the back door.
IIRC it continued in service like that for some length of time before the CAA became interested.
just another black tick in the long list of black ticks the CAA has been compiling
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good Luck
As many of you know i'm not really into visiting this board I'm more pervy picture type person....
But as we were all suddenly dropped in it I never had the chance to say its been a pleasure working with you all and wish you all the best of luck in your seach for new jobs....
I'm not going to start slagging anyone off as s**t happens but i know we'll all bounce back some way or another
Good luck guys ..
Luton ops....
But as we were all suddenly dropped in it I never had the chance to say its been a pleasure working with you all and wish you all the best of luck in your seach for new jobs....
I'm not going to start slagging anyone off as s**t happens but i know we'll all bounce back some way or another
Good luck guys ..
Luton ops....
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never felt pressured to take an aircraft which I felt was unsafe or needed engineering.
As for the Sheds, we carried a hell of a lot of defects. Partly due to some Captains refusing to write defects in the tech log in case it reflected badly on them and partly because some faults were made to 'disappear' by being signed off at the end of the ADD period and then being written up for another 10 days despite never being repaired.
There was a hell of a lot of pressure on crews to take marginal aircraft - one flight I did to Gatwick aged me ten years as the aircraft (330) started to fall apart around me and convinced me to get out of the company.
This close-minded attitude of 'theres nothing wrong here folks' by a small minority of crew is what allowed MOB to ride roughshod over people for so long. As long as one of you took an aircraft that wasn't fit to fly, you set a precendent that he could threaten and beat the rest of us with.
I have to echo some of the others on here - you really are better off out of the company. It may take some time to realise it but you will be. best of luck to all of you who wish to keep flying.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Jack Fairman
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JEM will NEVER take to the skies until a new owner is found by KPMG, and the only reason that aircraft are being subbed in is to prevent someone starting the routes out of LPL.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: liverpool
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Inflight safety.
I have recently been informed by one of our regular passengers that certain members of flight support have stated the reasons we have stopped operating is because the cabin crew were not up to standard. This may have been a joke on their part but may affect the careers of the crew wishing to remain in aviation. The majority of the cabin crew had all worked for well known, larger airlines and can confirm that all training was as per company manuals and to standard.I believe the CAA were happy with the ATP fleet! Any company that takes on a member of Emerald crew can be assured of employing dedicated, loyal and well trained professionals, especially me!!!!!!!.......
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=jemgirl]I have recently been informed by one of our regular passengers that certain members of flight support have stated the reasons we have stopped operating is because the cabin crew were not up to standard.[QUOTE]
FS are a right shower. I have first hand experience of their incompetence. Remember last summer when Euromanx took over JEM's ATP services..... Well FS caused all sorts of problems due to their incompetence....Sending a flight to LPL almost empty and then causing all PAX to overnight in IOM.
jemgirl, my answer, to that is "look who's talking"
FS are a right shower. I have first hand experience of their incompetence. Remember last summer when Euromanx took over JEM's ATP services..... Well FS caused all sorts of problems due to their incompetence....Sending a flight to LPL almost empty and then causing all PAX to overnight in IOM.
jemgirl, my answer, to that is "look who's talking"
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
Age: 63
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote=jemgirl]I have recently been informed by one of our regular passengers that certain members of flight support have stated the reasons we have stopped operating etc ...quote]
Hey JemGirl .. dont let them grind you down .. sad joke on someones part .. the 748 or shorts didnt have cabin crew ...... so how come the whole lot went pear shaped !!! Interesting to see all gone quiet on the AOC front and what is happening with potential buyers ?? Cant be many astute investors who would take on a company with so few pilots. Anybody know who is actually left at Emerald ? (other than MOB, SK and Henry
)
Hey JemGirl .. dont let them grind you down .. sad joke on someones part .. the 748 or shorts didnt have cabin crew ...... so how come the whole lot went pear shaped !!! Interesting to see all gone quiet on the AOC front and what is happening with potential buyers ?? Cant be many astute investors who would take on a company with so few pilots. Anybody know who is actually left at Emerald ? (other than MOB, SK and Henry
)