Cathay Pacific imploding.
 

Will the top brass of CX rather cancel flights than acknowledge the lack of workforce (both pilots and cabin crew)? They are working their pilots and cabin crew to the bone, putting bandages on all the aircraft because lack of engineers, and crew control seem to be over the job too. I guess it's difficult to get flights into the air when you have no crew....... In the meantime, both pilots and cabin crew are spineless to stand up to the big bosses.

Let's get some popcorn.:ugh:

We have enough staff to fulfil our schedule. We have hired 800 cadets. We will be at 70% of pre covid levels by year out. 100% in 2024. Our employees are more engaged this year compared to last year. The package is competitive. We have plenty of trainers. We listen to our employees and offer schedule or better. We will be doing another employee survey soon.

What more do you want? Nothing to see here!

You had me in the first half.

'If you don't like it, leave'

- spoken at a recent fleet forum

I believe this it the attitude of 3rd floor managers who managed to live without their family for over a years time over covid, totally devoid of compassion for anyone not as dead-set on career and actually believe life is worth living for reasons other than money and 'status'.

It's not just CX that's imploding. Though it does have it's own unique issues, including horrendous management and planning over the past few years, CX is also caught in the political and social changes that are turning Hong Kong into a global backwater.
Will the last person (non-mainlander) to leave please turn out the lights...

I disagree. Cathay will see strong growth and high profits over the next decades. The strategy of cutting costs permanently and recruiting at these new conditions will work, unfortunately.
The reality is that our industry is not at the level it once was, smart people select academic careers, the rest does not expect nor demand A scale. Cadets will be people who choose Cathay over some lower-middle management job with even more miserable pay and conditions. They will additionally increasingly come from low wage countries. China's youth unemployment rate is massive, this surplus will further fuel the supply side, wages will stay low.

I'll take that bet.
I believe you are failing to realize the number of international transiting passengers who are choosing other major Asian airports for their transit between North America and other points in Asia. This has historically been CX's prime market but many of us who travel regularly between Asia and North America no longer feel comfortable -- or secure -- transiting via HKG. The statistics and trends in the past year (as we've come out of Covid) show exactly that.

Cathay Pacific is a training airline and nothing more. The majority of the pilot workforce are planning to leave as they cannot afford to live in HK with the package offered. The airline is so short of crew that they are rostering to the absolute limits, asking crew to work on days off and on leave. The only way to fix this mess is to go on strike, there is no better time than now but of course that would require a unified workforce.
You have nobody to blame but yourselves, this bully would fold like a cheap suit if you just had the balls.

https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/m...e/2023/pr_1648


Some Western expats will leave, the rest will stay.

Dont worry, a lot of pilots waiting to come. Leave if you like. hahahahaha......

spoken like a true expat hating local climbing the slippery pole. Keep going up you’ll be DFO soon.

No, not pilots, schools kids. Plenty of school kids wanting to join. Big difference. A pilot would be ready for command in a couple of years. A kid fresh out of school will take 10 years to train, then get the required 4000 hour minimum required for a CX command, whilst logging seat time only, as required when sitting in a Cathay jet. And the historic 37% upgrading to captain turns your 800 into 296. High 5's all round in the board room may have been a touch premature. I care not. Sorry, just don't.
Don't even get me started on using the pus box narrow body as it should be as a first step for FO or Command upgrade, then moving onto a wide body. No we'll have a prison fleet, where you get sent with no option or choice or exit. Hang on, there is always an exit. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
Not quite the workers paradise.

RAT!!!!

Never a more true word said. Nailed it.

b.

Whatever happened to "The Management" ? Thoroughly enjoyed his posts. Hope retirement is treating you well.

b.

I think he’s much happier now he’s not reading these forums that’s for sure.

I'm one of those passengers. CX used to be my favourite airline, when flying trans-Pacific from Vancouver. Now I choose any other Asian transit point, excepting Beijing.

Leave, you whinging imbeciles.

Except there is no implosion.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...23-2023-06-23/

So sad to see what has happened at CX.

Some numbskull decided that Covid was a great way to show those pesky pilots who’s the boss (and the economic experts) by savaging positions, bases, salaries and conditions.

Just like the expert fuel hedging they did some years ago.

Now the whole shebang is collapsing (in spite of sycophant’s takes like Will IB Fayed) and they only have themselves to blame. Trying to recruit the same pilots they dismissed back and trying to salvage the mess they made with their appalling treatment of pilots in the midst of a global pilot shortage was yet another example of stupid, vindictive decision-making. Cramming flying training of inexperienced newbies into ridiculously low hour schedules seems a Swiss-cheese problem staring everyone right in the face.

Certainly a slightly more challenging task for management, given the changed political situation but CX needs capable leaders like Sutch and Eddington of old, rather than the evidently inept folks atop CX City now.

Sadly, suspect CX will be the Saudia or Alitalia of HK. A relic destroyed by incompetence.

I would hardly put Red Oddington as an equal to Sutch. His tenure was the start of the rot. Then there was David Downturn...

I share and understand the anger about the demise of T&C for staff,obviously.

What I don't get is the conclusion "low pay= downfall/implosion of the airline".

I would argue it's the opposite. Bad for us, but very good for them. Cathay will be highly profitable not the least because of the cost cutting.Rather than an implosion of the airline we saw an implosion of our T&C. Big difference. I think we will see an explosion of bonusses and the share price.

There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/...-about-it/amp/

STW, to counter your argument regarding the cut in Ts and Cs being a death nell for CX;

1) It could limit any recovery (missed opportunity) due to a lack of pilots. Yes, there will always be takers, but they're the bottom of the barrel, so they likely won't pass selection or training, or take and awfully long time to do so. And rightly so, as the trainers attempt to maintain the standards of old.

2) An incident/accident/hull loss creating bad publicity and loss of confidence amongst the flying public due to either the ineptitude of the new recruits, or more likely, due to stress in the flight deck amongst the old guard.

HUTT out.

Kitsune, this article is about a shortage in the US. Not relevant for Cathay.

Hutt, the recruitment of cadets has not changed over the last 20+ years. No change regarding safety or quality. And a slower expansion due to an (alleged) short term shortage would still be an expansion, not an implosion. It's wishful thinking I am afraid.

I am not trying to comment on the quality of cadets, but the recruitment process has definitely changed within the past 5 years. This includes the removal of flight grading from the selection process, lowering the requirement from icao 5 to icao 4 (it was always icao 4 on the website but they used to never accept anyone below a 5). Since they reopened applications post-covid, they have also reduced the interview process from the previous 2 day session with multiple exercises per day to 1 online HR interview + 1 face to face technical interview. But the logic behind this from what I understand is since the cadets now pay back half of the training costs, recruitment are taking less of a risk by loosening up the requirements and they can instead rely harder on FTA/Aeroguard Arizona to weed out the applicants that are not up to standard.

There will always be takers?

Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers?

They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now.

How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks?

How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago?

The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion.

Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get.

Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past.

The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past.
Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past.

V for V. Oh so true, every word.

V for V - a post laden with spelling mistakes! However, no mistakes whatsoever in your points. Absolutely spot on!

My sincere apologies. I had someone nagging at me to hurry up and let's go at the coffee shop. Got rushed. 😅

Pilots apparently just part of the problem, they are struggling for all sorts of personnel starting with Haeco.

Can I ask: since when do fo’s get checked to line in 15 sectors? Used to be a minimum of 40.

Europe seems pretty short too, salary going up and everyone seems to be hiring.

So the next logical question is the Swiss Cheese issue.

With SO many massive structural downward adjustments, weaknesses, shortcuts in recruiting and training (and thus so many holes in the cheese), when will those holes tragically align?

With everything we know about safety, how the hell can this still happen in this day and age?

Beggars belief.

maybe thats why theyre trying to move away from the swiss cheese model and focusing on threat and error management. no holes to align if you dont believe in the holes.

Actually, Europe & China / South Asia have some of the largest demands.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....acecfaabdb.png

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/ma...ician-outlook/

Check the payscales at the few airlines who hire at the moment: Whizzair, Lot, Air Baltic,Ryanair, Aerologic and Eurowings. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. If you digested that, substract 40% tax.

Not sure if you just like being some sort of contrarian but there’s not just a regional pilot shortage in the US. Demand is now untapped and expansion plans are being crippled at many carriers. The attrition rates I’m seeing and hearing of are something I’ve never witnessed in the industry before. I spent time at a major carrier where we were briefed on pilot demand not being met and exacerbated by a need to have check and training staff flying the line to meet summer demand. Which was at pre-COVID levels only.

I don’t think there’s meat on the bone. If Asia picks up much further demand won’t be met and the pilot shortage will arrive. What will that mean for CX pilots? Not much. Maybe a little more pity from outsiders. But good luck anyways.

You just listed the lowest paying european low cost airlines. Why don't you compare it with a legacy carrier, they are hiring too.

That is exactly the issue, most airlines who hire in Europe are indeed low cost now. Check for yourself. Legacy carriers either go for cadets like Cathay or use cheaper sub-brands to pay less (Transavia, Eurowings, Air Belgium etc).