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Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA
(Post 11467659)
There will always be takers?
Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers? They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now. How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks? How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago? The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion. Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get. Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past. The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past. Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past. |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11467872)
Check the payscales at the few airlines who hire at the moment: Whizzair, Lot, Air Baltic,Ryanair, Aerologic and Eurowings. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. If you digested that, substract 40% tax.
Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. |
The story goes that senior management’s preferred option was to hire more direct entry F/O’s in order to quickly ( read cheaply ) recover crewing levels on the basis of less required training sectors. FOP management argued that with SO’s approaching 7 years in rank this would cause significant dissent amongst the crew. their efforts to improve the ‘business case’ for upgrading existing crew involved a reduction in the upgrade training footprint if the trainee was up to the task. This of course puts vastly more pressure on the training system to maintain standards, as is always the case with CX it comes down to money! Personally I think it’s only a matter of time until it bites them on the arse.
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11467000)
There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives. https://www.pilotcareernews.com/brit...uitment-plans/ |
Originally Posted by Fac6
(Post 11468172)
I'm in the US earning more here as an FO than I did as a year 11 Captain in CX. Go figure...
Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. |
Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?
Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
(Post 11467993)
Not sure if you just like being some sort of contrarian but there’s not just a regional pilot shortage in the US. Demand is now untapped and expansion plans are being crippled at many carriers..
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Big Jet TV. LHR A50 yesterday!
Cathay ?239 at around the 2hr 10 min mark. Lovely landing by a Sing jumbo immediately after. |
Originally Posted by Fly747
(Post 11468267)
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Didn’t know you let the SO land now days!!
Bloody awful technique |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11468260)
Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps. Apparently you just want to ignore facts. |
Originally Posted by Angle_of_Attack
(Post 11468365)
I've literally just told you. BA are hiring DEFO / DEC and are conservatively estimating 500 pilots for just the next two years, saying nothing of the years following that.
Apparently you just want to ignore facts. You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe. |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11468412)
They do not hire non-UK citizens for starters. Any experienced 40yr-ish candidate hired as F/O would be a F/O for life even if they would hire you, which they don't. The direct entry positions are at Cityflyer, exactly what I said, they are using sub-brands, with the same restrictions. You also need the license, the type rating and the hours. .
You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe. Your personal eligibility has nothing to do with any of those questions or the responses. BA is hiring Captains for Euroflyer, not Cityflyer and DEFO is for Heathrow (aka BA Mainline) and Euroflyer, not Cityflyer. Again, you're disregarding facts. "To be considered for BA Euroflyer at the time of submitting online application – 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT* To be considered for British Airways at the time of submitted online application – 500 hours or 100 sectors on the A320 or 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months*" Plus, Joining BA means you have the ability to move within fleets. BA's cabin crew union have just negotiated a pay rise, I assume the same can be expected for flight crew if it hasn't happened yet. However, there is much more that factors into quality of life than just the number that ends up in your bank account each month. |
Take a read of the BA hiring thread. Commands went to those with a year in the company (320 LHR base), yes it's an anomaly but your assertion that you'll be an FO for life is wrong at the moment.....
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11468444)
When you are done halucinating read the fine print. I can't believe you are trying to sell this bs to colleagues just to get some attention..
Euroflyer is a LOW COST brand, jesus christ. The pay after tax is miserable Stop pretending this is a good job and out of reach for 99% in Cathay anyway. IThis is embarrassing and a waste of time, over and out Seems that you struggle to admit when you're wrong and are instead trying to make it about something else. I must've missed your post asking us to help you find a new job. |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11468260)
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps. If you made a lot of money pre-COVID as a CX pilot you have a lot of career choices. This seems to be a pattern in many of the pilots I know or have met who left Cathay. If you didn’t I guess you count pennies when comparing airline packages. |
don’t forget Qantas are severely short of pilots too with a large number of CX guys on the hold file awaiting dates still. The exodus hasn’t stopped yet and there are plenty of other options
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The Sam Ting Wongs of the world can put as much of a silly, head-in-the-sand spin on it as they want (for whatever reason)
Bottom line is that decent/experienced pilots are in short supply globally and decent airlines recognise the need to attract/pay/retain appropriately The 👇 horrendous Cathay landing video doing the social media rounds at present is just one byproduct of 5+ years of myopic corporate decision making. Sincerely hope it’s limited to merely a few bad landings. |
STW won’t admit when he’s wrong. There’s a significant shortage of pilots around the world. As mentioned above, those that made sensible financial decisions have the liberty of choice.
As an aside - if the pay is so poor elsewhere: which way is the flow of traffic? |
STW has NEVER admitted he’s wrong, but plenty of people have pointed it out to him in the past.
It’s fun to watch him throw his hands up once in a while and tell all of us he is leaving pprune…..again. This time he lasted a whole two weeks. Of course it is OUR fault for not realising he is not eligible to go to the USA, or BA, Lufthansa, KLM etc. so it’s really not fair of us to confront him with THAT particular part of the aviation industry. In HIS part of the world there is NO pilot shortage and that’s all that matters. CAN’T YOU ALL GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS ALREADY. He is REALLY getting tired of repeating himself and his same old argument over and over and over again. Why can’t you see his superior intellect? It is quite obvious to himself! |
You guys are halucinating, there are hardly any attractive jobs for experienced pilots on the market in Europe. Which is why nobody of you can name one. All you can do is post non-sensical, not asked for, non-attractive, escape, pseudo job offers.
Or, slightly more irritating even, you suddenly discover your wise and mindful inner side and announce with infinite wisdom that there are so many more important things in life than pay. Which of course is true, but it's like saying fasting is really healthy when asked for a certain recipe. It's just really very much annoying. Piet, you are at Aerologic, and that is totally fine. If it makes you happy there, great. But it is one of the lowest paying long haul jobs in the Western hemisphere, just a fact. This doesn't mean it can make sense to go there, and please believe me I really mean that, but only if you have other priorities. Now, you can continue to play dumb, I can't stop you, but I was clearly talking about, and I say it one last time just for you, an attractive job for an experienced CX pilot, with reasonable working hours and promotion options. If you care, look it up, I verbatim stated it exactly like that above. I am not apologetic about my area of interest, why should I? And please, for the love of Jesus Christ, stop stalking me via PM's and go easy on large fonds. It's embarrassing. |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11468797)
You guys are halucinating, there are hardly any attractive jobs for experienced pilots on the market in Europe. Which is why nobody of you can name one. All you can do is post non-sensical, not asked for, non-attractive, escape, pseudo job offers.
Or, slightly more irritating even, you suddenly discover your wise and mindful inner side and announce with infinite wisdom that there are so many more important things in life than pay. Which of course is true, but it's like saying fasting is really healthy when asked for a certain recipe. It's just really very much annoying. Piet, you are at Aerologic, and that is totally fine. If it makes you happy there, great. But it is one of the lowest paying long haul jobs in the Western hemisphere, just a fact. This doesn't mean it can make sense to go there, and please believe me I really mean that, but only if you have other priorities. Now, you can continue to play dumb, I can't stop you, but I was clearly talking about, and I say it one last time just for you, an attractive job for an experienced CX pilot, with reasonable working hours and promotion options. If you care, look it up, I verbatim stated it exactly like that above. I am not apologetic about my area of interest, why should I? And please, for the love of Jesus Christ, stop stalking me via PM's and go easy on large fonds. It's embarrassing. You are once again: WRONG! (Wish I could use even larger font to piss you off even more). I’m not at Aerologic, but know a few who are and they seem happy and decently paid. Another couple of friends (experienced cx(small font) pilots, mind you) who just landed jobs at BA and KLM. Happy to return the favour my friend, you too are annoying as f*ck and seem to think you know more than everyone else or that you are smarter than the average jockey out there. Except, similar to some of us, you are oftentimes….WRONG! |
Sam Ting WRONG ;)
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I think you two should just get a bottle of red and rent a hotel room together. Let the pillow fight determine the winner!
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Without prejudice...
“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” Joseph Goebbels The big lie, to describe the use of a lie so colossal that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Mein Kampf “Four legs good, two legs bad.” “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." Animal Farm Many Dictators, Communist, Socialist and other even Democratic Governments use these methods to control the narrative and thoughts of their proletarians. |
[QUOTE=Sam Ting Wong;11468797]You guys are halucinating, there are hardly any attractive jobs for experienced pilots on the market in Europe. Which is why nobody of you can name one. All you can do is post non-sensical, not asked for, non-attractive, escape, pseudo job offers.
Or, slightly more irritating even, you suddenly discover your wise and mindful inner side and announce with infinite wisdom that there are so many more important things in life than pay. Which of course is true, but it's like saying fasting is really healthy when asked for a certain recipe. It's just really very much annoying. Many/most CX expats who have kids consider a job back home for less money to be a superior job. You’re fine sitting in your one bedder in Tsing Yi, online gaming with your mates, but for many others there’s other considerations that have to be taken into account. Living in a s###hole and earning 15% more on paper (which EASILY gets eaten up in school fees/extortionate grocery bills/accommodation/extra medical/etc..) hardly makes this a far superior job to letting your family live in a good country. |
Ah, but you see, none of those things are relevant because they don't apply to him. Merely annoying facts that he prefers to ignore.
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One more thing STW: if you compare salaries in Europe to the salary in the authoritarian !!!!hole that HKG has become, you have to realise you are comparing apples and oranges.
I never had to spend HKD70k+ a month in housing anywhere else on the planet. |
Does anyone know why the 5 same people keep arguing with each other every day on this forum?
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Originally Posted by sirDA42
(Post 11469032)
Does anyone know why the 5 same people keep arguing with each other every day on this forum?
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Originally Posted by Piet Lood
(Post 11468961)
One more thing STW: if you compare salaries in Europe to the salary in the authoritarian !!!!hole that HKG has become, you have to realise you are comparing apples and oranges.
I never had to spend HKD70k+ a month in housing anywhere else on the planet. |
Ha! That is so true but as cxflog says, it's tradition.
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Originally Posted by Climbpowder
(Post 11469186)
Neither you would have that kind of money to spend anywhere else on the planet...
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Perhaps CX should take note of reality. The new United contract.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/un...tively-rise-40 |
STW.
I have some friends over in Europe. Have you seen the Aerologic pay scales and the new agreement CargoLux has reached with its pilots? You are delusional. Just to add, they are Conditions of Service and are "Contractural" and protected by very good labor laws. They are not Company Policy that can be changed at will |
70k rental…. I wonder what sort of houses CX staff stays in
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70K/mth rents you approx 1500sq ft.
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Originally Posted by Veruka Salt
(Post 11470212)
70K/mth rents you approx 1500sq ft.
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Originally Posted by Dingleberry Handpump
(Post 11468746)
STW won’t admit when he’s wrong. There’s a significant shortage of pilots around the world. As mentioned above, those that made sensible financial decisions have the liberty of choice.
As an aside - if the pay is so poor elsewhere: which way is the flow of traffic? |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11477926)
Therefore, you may not be seeing the effects of it immediately (in present time) but airlines will be prepping for it because they do try to plan long-term, despite what many of you seem to think. This is shown in part by the ordering of aircraft, and the need to acquire / train people to pilot and crew those aircraft when they are received. If you understood this basic fact about aviation you'd know this. |
Originally Posted by Fly747
(Post 11468267)
https://www.youtube.com/live/BGAIQqoGGZ0?feature=share
Cathay ?239 at around the 2hr 10 min mark. Lovely landing by a Sing jumbo immediately after. |
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