What shortage?
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What shortage?
Hearing/reading from everywhere about pilot shortage. Current job market makes me wonder, what the hack they are talking about?
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
Hearing/reading from everywhere about pilot shortage. Current job market makes me wonder, what the hack they are talking about?
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
Hearing/reading from everywhere about pilot shortage. Current job market makes me wonder, what the hack they are talking about?
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.
Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.
If you are British, BA is hiring aggressively at the moment and doesn't care about your type rating, so long as you have 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick asks for 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT.
BA regularly hires experienced pilots like yourself.
Hope that helps?
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I would say there is several factors. There is no pilot shortage in Europe. Yes, there is finally some demand and the bigger airlines hire hundreds of new pilots each per year, but we are far away from a real shortage, and i doubt it will ever happen in Europe like it does in the USA, where ALPA did run a very successful campaign using the families of the fatalities in a sad accident to push through their agenda into law and creating a real shortage.
And yes, airlines do prefer cadets. Some of them from their "own" cadet programs where people are selected before training and trained using the airlines SOPs from day one, so they do get an entry level pay cadet with a complete training record from pedestrian to airline pilot. And if they cannot get enough of those, they prefer type rated direct entry pilots with time on type on the line. Only the third category is for those that are willing to pay for a type rating.
We do see a certain discrepancy between the EU and the UK at the moment, which was to be expected as the UK is now a closed off market. If you have an UK license and right to live and work there (don't see any visa sponsoring currently), then i would suggest to try there, as there seems to be quite a demand in some airlines that do not necessarily expect pilots to have the correct typerating.
And yes, airlines do prefer cadets. Some of them from their "own" cadet programs where people are selected before training and trained using the airlines SOPs from day one, so they do get an entry level pay cadet with a complete training record from pedestrian to airline pilot. And if they cannot get enough of those, they prefer type rated direct entry pilots with time on type on the line. Only the third category is for those that are willing to pay for a type rating.
We do see a certain discrepancy between the EU and the UK at the moment, which was to be expected as the UK is now a closed off market. If you have an UK license and right to live and work there (don't see any visa sponsoring currently), then i would suggest to try there, as there seems to be quite a demand in some airlines that do not necessarily expect pilots to have the correct typerating.
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Europe is an odd place in that regard, many operators seemingly preferring very low experience pilots.
If you are British, BA is hiring aggressively at the moment and doesn't care about your type rating, so long as you have 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick asks for 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT.
BA regularly hires experienced pilots like yourself.
Hope that helps?
If you are British, BA is hiring aggressively at the moment and doesn't care about your type rating, so long as you have 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick asks for 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT.
BA regularly hires experienced pilots like yourself.
Hope that helps?
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I noticed too that there is no shortage for pilots that fall between cadet level and preretirement captains and it gets even worse if you are not type rated. In my former airline pay was the same for cadets and experienced FO's. EU is now a place to get some initial hours and then move to a better place or just be low paid bachelor and perhaps by age of 60 you will buy nice little eco studio flat on the outskirts. Its sad to see how experience is not appreciated in EU but it can change overnight like it did in US.
It’s all done under the guise of ‘diversity’ and the excuse that they have to recruit younger so they’re not accused of age discrimination. This is the Post Covid World where airlines are maximising rosters and profits by overlooking seniority and experience.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
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It’s all done under the guise of ‘diversity’ and the excuse that they have to recruit younger so they’re not accused of age discrimination. This is the Post Covid World where airlines are maximising rosters and profits by overlooking seniority and experience.<br /><br />It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
Last edited by BTMS_OVHT; 2nd Aug 2023 at 10:04. Reason: change.
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It’s all done under the guise of ‘diversity’ and the excuse that they have to recruit younger so they’re not accused of age discrimination. This is the Post Covid World where airlines are maximising rosters and profits by overlooking seniority and experience.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
And let's break down, what opportunities actually we have in Europe. Ruling out all the legacies and mainlines which are recruiting only the locals, we have:
- bizav segment, where many of the captains I met in the simulator or in line ops would be below-average copilots in the airlines, or best pilot aces in the universe (means machos with military background who would not make it into the airlines). There are still some good places to be (e.g. NetJets, Vista - here a big question mark seeing the current development of the Air Hamburg, or if you are lucky, you have a good owner wiling to spend a bit more for a reasonable monthly salary of his crew)
- LoCos - draining you down to the last drop of your energy (yellow one) or even worse - placing you into some sh... hole somewehere in the post socialistic countries (in other words, complete Earthquake for your family and kids)
- ACMI - some strictly nationalistic (e.g. German one) and those, who are not are usually eastern-european companies driven by ASG or private individuals who are bringing-in the friends of their friends... Moreover usually claiming to own every second of your life in summer and starving in winter..
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It’s all done under the guise of ‘diversity’ and the excuse that they have to recruit younger so they’re not accused of age discrimination. This is the Post Covid World where airlines are maximising rosters and profits by overlooking seniority and experience.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.
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Air France is perhaps not the best example to examine the correlation between competence and terms and conditions.
Surely one of the remaining airlines with the best T&C in Europe.
Surely one of the remaining airlines with the best T&C in Europe.
I recently flew in Europe for a (non aviation) work contract. The company had booked a European LoCo flight for me. As I sometimes do, I asked to visit the cockpit after landing, just to get my fix of an Airbus FBW cockpit.
I was very surprised indeed that both pilots were extremely young, and the guy in the LHS was wearing two silver stripes, the guy in the RHS three stripes ???
I was very surprised indeed that both pilots were extremely young, and the guy in the LHS was wearing two silver stripes, the guy in the RHS three stripes ???
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The american pilot market is closed to externals due to rigid handling of the green card, while Europe rsp. European Community (EC) is open to everyone, and even within the EU there are sufficient numbers of pilots from Eastern Europe (most of the countries are meanwhile in the EC) helping filling gaps, if there are any.
There was never any "pilot shortage" nor will there be any in the future in Europe. Discussion about the effect, flying has on climate (so called "fly shame", thanks to "Greta" and her sponsors) and sharply rising prices for flights will rather adversely affect aviation in Europe and thus labour market.
There was never any "pilot shortage" nor will there be any in the future in Europe. Discussion about the effect, flying has on climate (so called "fly shame", thanks to "Greta" and her sponsors) and sharply rising prices for flights will rather adversely affect aviation in Europe and thus labour market.