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Don't forget that in the last survey, "intention to stay" was at 48%, which the DFO saw as a positive point.
Nevermind that 52% are actively looking at other jobs. Even a 30% pay raise wouldn't stop most from leaving, knowing well how the company can cut their contracts at will. The problem is not a recruitment issue, it is a retention issue. Give us our old contract (like any other airline in the world did) and maybe we'll talk. |
How come other HK base airlines with lower pay scale have no shortage of pilots but CX being highest paid have this issue ? I wonder what so special of them ?
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Originally Posted by Zapp_Brannigan
(Post 11573075)
Don't forget that in the last survey, "intention to stay" was at 48%, which the DFO saw as a positive point.
Nevermind that 52% are actively looking at other jobs. Even a 30% pay raise wouldn't stop most from leaving, knowing well how the company can cut their contracts at will. The problem is not a recruitment issue, it is a retention issue. Give us our old contract (like any other airline in the world did) and maybe we'll talk. 48% have intentions to stay, I would say 50% of them are new or recent joiners are too old to move on, married to a local and/or pure incompetent in operations, the remaining 50% are locals. for the other 52% they want to leave but too scared to test the waters. |
Dear cygnet78,
I flew Cathay for 30 years. For three decades, I had a front row seat to a never ending stream of cost reduction measures that manifested themselves in two ways: constant cuts to pay and benefits, along with constant reductions to the standards of hiring and the training of pilots. Pilot pay and benefits were constantly on the chopping block. It became a pattern of abuse. Every few years new contracts would be imposed in a sign or be fired campaign of intimidation. Inevitably, as the lower pay packages attracted fewer and fewer experienced pilots, recruitment quality standards were reduced. Bizarrely, managers boasted that the reduced standards still attracted top pilot talent….and so the cuts continued. As well as the pay cuts, cost efficiencies were imposed on what used to be minimum training requirements, such as minimum crew experience levels and minimum crewing levels on long range and ultra long range flights. It was alarming to witness the constantly diminishing standard of pilot experience on the flight deck. Warnings to management were shrugged off. Pilot’s flying rosters were also on the block and began to reflect an abusive interpretation of the required flight time limitations. By international convention, maximum flight time limitations are meant to be exercised only in the short term to deal with extreme and unforeseen circumstances (typhoon). Yet, in an effort to scrimp and save money, Cathay management began to roster pilots to the legal limit on a permanent basis. Every assigned flight pattern was stretched to the absolute legal limit. Rest patterns rostered between flights became the absolute bare minimum allowed by law. The outcome should have been predictable, unsustainable levels of pilot fatigue and burn out was the result. Multiple warning letters from Senior Training Captains to management about these and other cost cutting safety concerns were ignored. The risks associated with diminishing safety standards were rubber stamped as acceptable safety risks by internal management review. All the while management would crow, without shame, that safety was their top priority (Orwellian). The never ending spiral of cost cutting and poisonous intimidation succeeded in reducing what was once the best pilot job in the world…to a kafkaesque life of toxic intimidation, malaise and fatigue. So after 30 years I had enough. I gave three months notice, packed up my family and left. A clerk oversaw my release and walked me to the door. Cathay is indeed reaping what it has sowed. |
Originally Posted by raven11
(Post 11573164)
Dear cygnet78,
I flew Cathay for 30 years. For three decades, I had a front row seat to a never ending stream of cost reduction measures that manifested themselves in two ways: constant cuts to pay and benefits, along with constant reductions to the standards of hiring and the training of pilots. Pilot pay and benefits were constantly on the chopping block. It became a pattern of abuse. Every few years new contracts would be imposed in a sign or be fired campaign of intimidation. Inevitably, as the lower pay packages attracted fewer and fewer experienced pilots, recruitment quality standards were reduced. Bizarrely, managers boasted that the reduced standards still attracted top pilot talent….and so the cuts continued. As well as the pay cuts, cost efficiencies were imposed on what used to be minimum training requirements, such as minimum crew experience levels and minimum crewing levels on long range and ultra long range flights. It was alarming to witness the constantly diminishing standard of pilot experience on the flight deck. Warnings to management were shrugged off. Pilot’s flying rosters were also on the block and began to reflect an abusive interpretation of the required flight time limitations. By international convention, maximum flight time limitations are meant to be exercised only in the short term to deal with extreme and unforeseen circumstances (typhoon). Yet, in an effort to scrimp and save money, Cathay management began to roster pilots to the legal limit on a permanent basis. Every assigned flight pattern was stretched to the absolute legal limit. Rest patterns rostered between flights became the absolute bare minimum allowed by law. The outcome should have been predictable, unsustainable levels of pilot fatigue and burn out was the result. Multiple warning letters from Senior Training Captains to management about these and other cost cutting safety concerns were ignored. The risks associated with diminishing safety standards were rubber stamped as acceptable risks by internal management review. All the while management would crow, without shame, that safety was their top priority (Orwellian). The never ending spiral of cost cutting and poisonous intimidation succeeded in reducing what was once the best pilot job in the world…to a kafkaesque life of toxic intimidation, malaise and fatigue. So after 30 years I had enough. I gave three months notice, packed up my family and left. A clerk oversaw my release and walked me to the door. Cathay is indeed reaping what it has sowed. During the covid era I had 3 line checks, one with a “hard-a**”. At that point I didn’t care if I passed or failed or got sacked. I had enough with the company, the constant PCR/RAT testing, the quarantine down-route and back in HK and the endless forms. This carried on till I went for my command. Even now as a commander, I’m unmotivated and couldn’t care less if we took more fuel, I met OTP or not ,,,,,,, |
Originally Posted by raven11
(Post 11573164)
Dear cygnet78,
I flew Cathay for 30 years. For three decades, I had a front row seat to a never ending stream of cost reduction measures that manifested themselves in two ways: constant cuts to pay and benefits, along with constant reductions to the standards of hiring and the training of pilots. Pilot pay and benefits were constantly on the chopping block. It became a pattern of abuse. Every few years new contracts would be imposed in a sign or be fired campaign of intimidation. Inevitably, as the lower pay packages attracted fewer and fewer experienced pilots, recruitment quality standards were reduced. Bizarrely, managers boasted that the reduced standards still attracted top pilot talent….and so the cuts continued. As well as the pay cuts, cost efficiencies were imposed on what used to be minimum training requirements, such as minimum crew experience levels and minimum crewing levels on long range and ultra long range flights. It was alarming to witness the constantly diminishing standard of pilot experience on the flight deck. Warnings to management were shrugged off. Pilot’s flying rosters were also on the block and began to reflect an abusive interpretation of the required flight time limitations. By international convention, maximum flight time limitations are meant to be exercised only in the short term to deal with extreme and unforeseen circumstances (typhoon). Yet, in an effort to scrimp and save money, Cathay management began to roster pilots to the legal limit on a permanent basis. Every assigned flight pattern was stretched to the absolute legal limit. Rest patterns rostered between flights became the absolute bare minimum allowed by law. The outcome should have been predictable, unsustainable levels of pilot fatigue and burn out was the result. Multiple warning letters from Senior Training Captains to management about these and other cost cutting safety concerns were ignored. The risks associated with diminishing safety standards were rubber stamped as acceptable safety risks by internal management review. All the while management would crow, without shame, that safety was their top priority (Orwellian). The never ending spiral of cost cutting and poisonous intimidation succeeded in reducing what was once the best pilot job in the world…to a kafkaesque life of toxic intimidation, malaise and fatigue. So after 30 years I had enough. I gave three months notice, packed up my family and left. A clerk oversaw my release and walked me to the door. Cathay is indeed reaping what it has sowed. |
Absolutely, but this is a HK forum. More specifically, even EK gave crews back their old terms & conditions after Covid19.
CX, not even close. |
21 yrs for me Raven.
Did a stint on the JRC to try and change that mindset which turned out to be an absolute waste of my time. When my offboarding process was complete I was told by a pimple faced clerk to “enjoy the rest of my life” Whilst initially insulted by the flippancy of the comment I have since come to realise that maybe she knew more than she was letting on ! Ditto to all you have stated. |
Raven speaks with clarity and sadly its a clarity never picked up by managers, (small m intended). That the many managers are pilots themselves, is testament to where the greed of position and sycophantic promotion continues to prevail as a toxic wedge between the McGowan's of the world and the the cabal in Flight ops who show utter disrespect for those who shape the company..( small c intended). Cx breeds a certain type of hate and its a hate strangely unconnected to salary...and one not really evident in HKE or HKA..sad...
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11478934)
Piet, the discussion was about whether there is a GLOBAL shortage, as some in here claim. I am saying there is no such thing, it is a REGIONAL shortage ( as in restricted to certain geographic regions , like the US or Australia).
Get some sleep! 😉 Who knows? All will be answered by the task force, made up exclusively by the incompetents who masterminded this mess, while excluding those who had been warning for months of the looming fiasco such as the Chairman of the HKAOA. But it would go against the Swire management model to have anyone but Yes men in the room. As for CX being special in comparison to the Middle East airlines, look at the facts. CX management claim their pilot contracts are competitive. No individual gets to decide what’s competitive and what isn’t. The market does. There is a steady flow of experienced pilots out of CX to the ME/Europe/Australia/US/Canada. The flow of experienced pilots from those regions to CX is virtually non-existent. That’s how competitive the CX conditions are. |
Originally Posted by Babyjet_dododo
(Post 11573116)
The only way the board will agree to a 30% pay rise is if the MPP was raised to 84 hours a month. So bye bye Productivity pay!
48% have intentions to stay, I would say 50% of them are new or recent joiners are too old to move on, married to a local and/or pure incompetent in operations, the remaining 50% are locals. for the other 52% they want to leave but too scared to test the waters. |
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More here...
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Humble pie, anyone?
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Not really, they’re much worse results than similar hub airlines posted a year ago when CX was deep in the red.
This years figures will be eclipsing. ps, how much of that will you see? Surely 8-10 months to be equivalent to what went round last year, considering the atrocious basic salary you’re on. pps, just in time for the Chinese house of cards to crumble (according to more or less everyone but yourself). |
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
(Post 11614675)
Humble pie, anyone?
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Originally Posted by Dingleberry Handpump
(Post 11614853)
Not really, they’re much worse results than similar hub airlines posted a year ago when CX was deep in the red.
This years figures will be eclipsing. ps, how much of that will you see? Surely 8-10 months to be equivalent to what went round last year, considering the atrocious basic salary you’re on. pps, just in time for the Chinese house of cards to crumble (according to more or less everyone but yourself). That collapse is surely coming, any decade now…… Let's face it, the glory days are over - there’s always someone willing to do the job cheaper than you or I when we started out. how atrocious do you think the salary will be once single pilot / reduced pilot ops is the norm? |
Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai
(Post 11614883)
That’s rather ironic coming from you on the very day senior management finally admitted they are unable to meet their expansion targets due to a shortage of crew.
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7 weeks, of your COS18 basic? Am I hearing that right?
Wow. I suppose they know if you haven’t left now, no amount of insult will push you further. |
Yes I wish they would keep insulting me like this
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