It has been intresting to see the different point of views in this post.
I don' t work for CX( I do have an interview soon though).
I want just to say that I work as Cpt for a regional airline in the US and trust me they give you 7 sim session and if you are not "ready" by sim 5 you are basically out. No extra sim or help.
they send a company check guy (for session 5 ) which perform as seat fill and preatty much eveluates you. If you make 2-3 mistakes you are shoot down without vaseline.

My instructor (ex US airforce)for example was a screamer. His debrief were something like that: Well, that' s where you f*** up. Do it better tomorrow.No pointers, incentives or a single word of encouragement. So i did pass first shoot.But nobody helped.And this is at a REGIONAL level on the EMB 145.

Arrogance, power trips etc. are everywhere. I am not justifying any bad instructor or Check airman here if their behaviour is arrogant or God like.but everywhere you go there will be always a Cpt. a Check Air. harrassing you.So you got to face with professionality and try to get the most out of every sim and debrief session.Keep a positive attitude and pray.

After all to be the A/c commander is not just exhibiting flying skills.There is more than that. I am sure you all know.....

In the old country you couldn' t even address the Cpt. by his first name for God sake.Had to be always CPt+ surname.

On a side note, that instructor of mine eventually got on UPS. And guess what? he berely passed after he was jerked around by an old crusty retired navy pilot (which was his Check Airm.) ah ah ah ah..
drink a lot of water and eat figs........................

Ps forgive the form I am not american or of english mother tongue.
Saluti

cristn wrote:

It must be time to have our own CX forum within PPRuNe restricted to registered users only. I am ashamed to be associated with some of the characters here.

I very much agree. Who can arrange this?

I have heard that much of the problem with some of our pilots is due to an entitlement mentality. They have felt it is their entitlement to be upgraded. It is their entitlement to have a smooth run and not have any difficult flights, sims or reserves.

Personally, I haven't seen it on the line. But some posters on PPRUNE make me think there is something to it.

Most of us here at CX had to work pretty hard to get in. Then we worked hard to get upgraded. Just like they do in every other airline on earth. So what is so different about us regret/cannot?

Falling on disdainful rhetoric to argue ones case is indicative of a weak logical position. Why 'play the ball when you can play the man' seems to be their motto.

If you have anything useful to say then say it. And before your vitriol begins anew, I have only one handle on PPRUNE, I dont drink Koolaid, I am not a TC, I do not hang around the 3rd floor. I am finding it difficult to give you any benefit of the doubt as you constantly flaunt the rule "better to be thought the fool and keep your mouth shut than open your mouth and confirm it".


Now onto the original topic, please keep posting the numbers of people going and where they go to...I cant find that info in crews news;-)

PS if anyone has 2 job positions vacant elsewhere, I know that there are at least 2 angry pilots dieing to leave here.

yes jtr, joined on the 'queen of the skies' and then airbus a few years later. Why do you ask?
I enjoyed being an FO in this company...a position I held for around 9years. I can count on one hand the number of a#$hole captains I flew with. This includes check and trainers.

You went to the Airbus when everyone was new to it, i.e. No pedantic know it all rottweiler poison dwarf forbe bar a55hole types (I hear the times have changed), did your upgrade with trainers/checkers who had "grown up" on the fleet, just like yourself. Your training and check experiences for the majority of your career (transition to le bus, and command) are not like those most experience at the present time. I too joined the bus when it was in it's infancy.

Not taking a stance on your CX rules/CXsucks debate, just pointing out that your oakleys may have a rosey tint.

We used to have our own forum under the aoa.
It was called CPRUNE. But, our insidious union shut it down under the auspice of legal ramifications due to "defamatory remarks" made there. All to help forward their agenda of getting the 49er deal passed.
RIP aoa!

Still is a forum for AOA members. Try joining 19wheeler:}

Divide and conquer worked for Julius Ceaser. It works for Cathay management too!

There are 3 types of pilots:
those that see the glass as half empty
those that see the glass as half full
those like regret/jose/cannot who look at the glass and think "f#$k cathay"


The original intent of this thread was to ask who and how many were leaving. I think most of us readers are quite DISinterested in the fates or opinions of the aforementioned posters.

cannot regret jose, please help save the planet...stop polluting pprune with your south park cartmen-esque diatribe.

:ok: :ok: :ok: :D :D ;) :D

regretCX: You've not responded to the task set you on the other forum. There, you were challenged to do something proactive. Instead of whining like a spoilt, hyperventillating 5 year-old anonymously on PPRUNE, you were challenged to go see your Boss, CEO whatever and spay him with your invective about how disgusting your profit share was.

Did you?

What lasting benefits did you thus bring your fellow professional aviators?
Could it be that you are just a little computer-hero? Willing to spead vitriol at all and sundry but not prepared/maturemanly enough to get out and do something proactive?

Then perhaps I will quote your own words back at you:

I told you so.........spineless to a single man....... OK, so in light of your own apparent inaction how's your backbone doing?

You cretins keep saying you're ashamed.......I'M ashamed I was so stupid as to get sucked in by all the hype and crap......I could have done better with just about any other airline in the world.......but alas I chose Cathay... Kazakhstan Airlines eagerly awaits your even temperament.
BAD CHOICE.. So why stay?

So run along "yes" men and set up your little chat room, talking the hardline but knowing your going to vote "bend over" with the rest of the sheep. Let the real issues stay on the public forum. I've said it all before and I haven't changed my mind. You are pathetic.

OK, great, had your little childish tantrum yet again. So when are YOU going to get on the pilot Union, any Union and DO something?

If you can't get of your a*se and and fix what you clearly see as such a major problem then why bring everybody else down?

I spent much of my life thus far trying to convince airline management that we Professional aviators are indeed professional, and yet I have to represent the likes of you. Yes, I'm ashamed you are (allegedly) a professional pilot. No airline or professional pilot association needs the likes of you.

Al. good post. Here Here!!!!

The sad part is...he won't get another offer and we're stuck with him!:\

Looks like our moderator has yanked both Regret and JoseBanana so we are not stuck with them here under those aliases anyway.

Only anecdotal,
Around 20 have left over the past few months, excluding
sim instructors.They need around 250 per year to allow for the reduced growth program, caused by lack of trainers, they would have liked more
newbies but CANNOT due to training constraints.The management are
active on this forum, trying to keep it upbeat, especially to restrict anti
Cathay sentiment being broadcast worldwide. Personally I expect a VERY
small payrise,to stem the exits and increase recruiting. There are many
things wrong with Cathay as with all Airlines lately, so keep up the
negatives on Prune guys. It really is the only way we can change things
for the better.

lets face it folks, dear old "RegretCX" ain't going to make it anywhere, his life is obviously so crap nothing but winning the lottery and direct promotion to Senior Captain will alleviate his suffering.................as he clearly deserves........................actually, his story has touched my heart, now lets hope he F@#ks off and quits bothering people.......................

Still it seems 4 Classic Captains and 3 or 4 F/O's are on the way out to Oasis and 3 or 4 -400 guys following suit..............that and the US based guys going to Fedex/UPS and the "Legacy" carriers seems the exit rate will soon exceed the input/training rate..................should make it interesting trying to crew all the new aircraft that are coming.........................Apparently it all starts to bite in May as folks already have had May leave cancelled due to the "particuarly heavy task"

Party on people
!!!!!

With Oasis starting YVR in June, how many pilots are they hiring for a YVR base?

"There are 3 types of pilots:
those that see the glass as half empty
those that see the glass as half full"


You Called!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe Oasis should pick up a few of "our" 773ERs for that route since we will be parking them anyway. :{ :{

Parking 300ER's???????????? I very much doubt that.
We have now got over 57 training Capt's on the 777 ( although why anyone would train is beyond me ) 50 to 60 line Capt's and one hell of a lot of upgrades about to kickoff. So I'm sorry to dissappoint you but I very much doubt that Cx will have to park anything anywhere. If they do then NR will be looking for a new job.:ok:
Try getting Xmas leave this year and take a look how many slots are available............zero. ( 1 slot already allocated )
I guess all the 3rd floor will have Xmas off to spend their nice fat bonus ( much bigger than ours I'm sure ):*

that's nice and sweet, but who are they going to train when A LOT your pilots will have other jobs by August?:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Oasis:D

Jetstar:D

UPS:D

United :D

Easyjet:D

Virgin Blue:D

Delta Airlines:D

FedEx:D

Southwest:D


Just to name a few places where ex-Cathay pilots can be found

If I had a dollar for each person that said they were leaving Cx...........................then I'd be a millionair by now.
Not that many will leave, if they do then good. It only makes my industrial position stronger and supply and demand forces will take control of out T&C.
a lot ? yeah right

supply and demand? Cathay might have to train more people to keep up with attrition but there will NEVER be a supply problem! Still lots of people out there who think (incorrectly so) that CX is heaven on earth. The "company" will never have to give you any payrises. So keep on dreaming. (dreams don't always come true) Last time I checked, there's been consistent pay"un"rises (pardon my english) since 1993.

CX might have to park aircraft because their training department is an impedance to the growth of the airlines. (well, and the people quitting on a weekly basis are too). :sad: :sad:

Hey, come august, HKIA might have to shutdown one of the runways to park all 'em "shiny 777s". :} :} :}

Cathay linecheck scenario:

Ok chap, RWY07R in Hong Kong is NOTAMed out of service to park our brand new 777s that are not flying because we failed everybody on their upgrades. So you're half way across the Pacific and you're low on gas..Can you continue to Hong Kong based on the "Inflight reduction of normal fuel required" according to current conditions?

For those of you anti-Cathay types that can't seem to find the info in the manuals, Inflight reduction of fuel is in the Vol 2 Pt 2, Gen operational section.:ok:
Parking ER's...............................very very unlikely.
Cx always falls on it's feet, sad but true.

remember when Cathay was the only airline in Hong Kong?? OK..that's not the case anymore.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I agree ACMS, A/T less needs a refresher!:eek:

cannot,
why would they have to park aricraft? If 100% fail command course this year they can extend the 50 or so retirees. Also they can simply work all captains, who are not G day limited, into overtime. If there are say 600 captains, we would all be worked up to 92 hrs...still a lot cheaper using overtime than upgrading CNs! Also, if they anticipate a high failure rate, they could divert any unproductive training to straight line flying...not much of this but it all helps!

Grounding lots of aircraft due failures/training...highly unlikely!

Back to the subject....

These are the Numbers of guys that have left that I know directly (not heard of friends of friends).

1... Easyjet
1... Air France
1... Jetstar Oz
1... UPS
1... Oasis Hong Kong
1... Emirates
1... Gone to buy a pub in Europe (prob the smartest one of all!!!)

So that 7 that I know of.... how about you?

Weekly Update
 

This week showed some encouraging signs. Nine pilots departed this week but they were only Freighter pilots so this does not count. They were also mostly American which really is good news. On the training front we are still actively bullying as many line Captains as we can into becoming Training Captains however if you would still like to volunteer we are still taking those also. Again on the training side we have decided to upgrade the ERAS system. You'll now be glad to know that their is now a score less than 1. We will be introducing a new score system with the exciting addition of the "1/2" score. This will give trainers who are really having a bad day the opportunity of really stessing a training point in a constructive and non threatening way. I think you'll agree this will be a welcome change from the old system and will completely eliminate the conjecture and arguments during a debrief. Load factor remains strong which means absolutely no chance of getting out or back in for those of you lucky enough to have leave this year. I have had a few words to the staff travel people and they assure me that they will be doing their utmost to ensure your family are able to travel as dispersed within the cabin as possible. This will give every member of the family the opportunity to sit in front of our new featured "inop staff IFE screen" in the company of the fat sh&t next to you. So don't miss out on this one! Happy New Year, and remember the old Chinese proverb.

If man at staff travel counter no smile: go different counter.


Regards,





Rhick

That was great! :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thank you Rhick!

Oh great! At least the guys going through now know that there is a backup plan to support their impending failure(s).

Just to add to Night Watch's tally.
Definitely 7 to Oasis from the freighter fleet. 2 400F effos, 2 Classic effos, 2 Classic line Capts plus a trainer.

spud

The one that I listed that went to Oasis was off the Pax fleet.....

So that makes a running total of at least 14.

35 in the "pool" for UPS apparently plus Fedex and the fed up yanks waiting for re-call to legacy carriers......................

times they is a changin'.........................

Uh, ACMS, actually it's not.
Inflight reduction of fuel is in VOL 2 PT 2 under COMPANY POLICY.
NP:ok:

Rhick,

Please keep those updates coming.

Notice to Crew
 

Due to the recent shortfall in Vol2 Pt2 knowledge demonstrated by a Junior777 Commander on the Pprune website we will introducing mandatory remedial training for all B777 Captains. From now on we will have a "Vol2 pt2" Channel broadcast free in all online port hotels. This will be accessed by your ERN at the reception desk and the televised course will start in you room 20 mins after checking in. If for some reason you have a delay in checking in you may have the module start over by picking your mobile phone dial your Fleet number ie 777 followed by the # followed by your ERN backwards. If you do not have mobile coverage the concierge is contactable downstairs by direct dial ###. A sign off form must then be accessed via People CX after you have finished each review module. Captains may log into ERAS to monitor their progress and complete the online quiz. If the quiz is not completed to a satifactory standard ie less than 100% then the module will need to be reassessed at a later date. However this module must be repeated at a different outport otherwise it would be too easy. I think we will all agree from this that the days of the one small binder sitting on the shelf at home are well and truely numbered.
Happy and safe flying. And remember the old Chinese proverb.

If Check Captain have manboobs: dont taxi on white line.


Regards,





Rhick

Message from CP744 to pax crews today:
Please volunteer to fly the freighter for us. You know it makes sense. More varied rosters and of course we are not short of freiighter crews. :ok:

Damage Control
 

"excluding themselves from interesting flying in an otherwise almost exclusively ULR passenger operation."
What was I thinking, iso going to LAX/SFO etc with 30 something hour layovers, I can got on 4 or 5 sector patterns through to europe and back where I spend half my time PX'ing. Thanks for tipping me off.

Problem Solved !
 

Hey !!! I got an idea !! If you want people to fly the freighter, get rid of the Freighter COS and pay scale, integrate the freighter flying into Cathay Mainline (with Cathay mainline pay and FTLs) stop giving commands out of seniority , especially to people 7 years junior to Cat'B and D'd FOs and then , maybe, then I will fly the freighter..............

......
......
..........no wait come to think of it the roster will still suck........
......
.....
.....

...nevermind, forget I mentioned anything !

FG