Easy... direct entry capt means only one pilot to train. No need to find and train someone to replace the upgraded f/o.
And you can bet .. just as in ASL years ago that management pilots will ‘train’ and pass them ... new contract conditions too of course.

I feel tensions are building on the line far quicker than anticipated. The operation is such a mess from so many factors, anyone who cares will be stretchered out of the flight deck on a defibrillator. The email from a CX manager, many had only heard about on pprune, was an indication of how far removed and misunderstood the KA operation is.

KA Flt Op's managers sense the urgency. Sweet emails lauding the professionalism of well handled events would be received with considerable cyniscm. Yes, the new people communication skills are very obvious. But they are a veritable kiss and fu@& principle. Op's management offer professional encouragement whilst the real goal is contract concessions from up the command chain.

Besides, the half-life of KA managers is about 9 months. Nobody seriously believes any ( bar a favourite ) any will be around in the long term.

Hard working G day workers and trainers keeping the A320 operation afloat, now face the prospect of hinted DECs on the 330. Learning their effforts are of no consequence to career aspirations. Project Altitude synergies wouldn't harness weeping career hopes of pilots. With A321s on the way in numbers and a potential flood of departures, A330 DECs whether off the street or via integration offer the greratest on paper savings. The fallacy of course being, the intangible measure of morale or more so, what mangagers love to term as keeping the show on the road.

Be safe.

Add to the mess the evident decision for CX pilots to have less pay and benefits than their KA brethren (not to discredit their conditions, just the absurdity of it). I can safely say to CX management that you have no idea how much of a sh*t storm you are about to be engulfed in. The latest letter to the trainers is plain evidence of our management 'losing the plot'. How will you do as an airline when you don't have a training department by the end of the year?

KA currently hiring DEFO onto the A330 ahead of A320 FO's waiting for CCQ.
DPA turn blind eye. They will work hard to block this one and protect captains

Agreed AppleTree...CX management love to roll out the "but your pay and conditions are well above other local carriers." While ignoring the obvious fact that the KA IS ALSO A LOCAL CARRIER AND SHOULD THEREFORE SERVE AS A VALID COMPARISON OF MARKET RATES AND TERMS.


My advice to KA pilots:
Do you seriously believe that your terms and conditions will remain at present levels once CX achieves their goal to hack away the terms and conditions from CX pilots?

Although we've had our petty differences, it is imperative we all band together now. We are under attack today, you will be tomorrow. Time to shut the whole operation down. It is flu season after all.

You are missing the point. They have a second training department in Cathay Dragon. KA trainers will be called upon to cover the shortfall. Wether good or bad, the precident is set. Many guys want to join the KA training dept. Many KA trainers would like to train in CX.

The answer, make KA trainers into CX managers. They can be then directly employed out of seniority, onto CX A330s.

Far fetched? Time will tell.:p

KA have hired DEFO into the A330 for years nothing new there.

rumors said DEC in KA very soon...thanks with Green's care!

Maybe KA will be taking all the cos99 CX Captains that are forced out at 55y.o?
By the sounds of the impending ARAPA reduction, these 55y.o’s might even get a pay rise out of it!

So you really think DEC are happening?

CX senior FOs' being asked if they would accept a KA command for 3 years !

They have mentioned it in memos but it's a massive ask getting through the command check with the tiny bit of training provided unless you have significant Airbus and china experience... and that should mean you can better money elsewhere.

Thank you. I was just asking because it's not advertised on their website

They honestly think that captains with three months of validity on their commands would risk a KA command course, and if they miss out take a RHS and 12 months to cool off before having another crack? Who is kidding themselves now???! Surely they would just march across the road and take the $300,000 sign on bonus next door or go to china...

This of course has nothing to do with "suddenly needing captains". The 321s are years away, and current 320 captains arent even in Ot let alone under staffed. This is purely a trojan horse to get direct commanders into KA if the negotiations go sour when they try and pinch the housing off the B scalers. A trojan horse for scabs if it all goes bad. Lucky we have ex 89ers in the training department that will see it for what it is.

The simple reality is, they cant attract AND retain experienced pilots with the withered carrot they are dangling. We have lost more than we have hired this year, and how many more are waiting for a start date? Are they so in touch that they choose a time where they are losing guys at a record rate to take on the pilot body? Breathtaking in its stupidity.

Lowkoon, you mentioned:
They see the current (soon to be no longer able to be taken advantage of) fuel hedging loss as justification for 'the sky is falling'. They feel if they don't act now, against both sets of 'group' pilots, they'll lose that chance. It was never about sacking 600 relatively low paid workers in the paper shuffling department, that was simply justification for their real goal - ARAPA.
So stupidity? Yes in many ways they are.
For years they have chased cents whilst missing dollars, and never missed an opportunity to demean and degrade the pilots in the eyes of all the other staff.
From taking away the expat travel desk in the early 90's, to giving everyone a mug with their name on except pilots, to comparing hard landing costs with billions of dollars of fuel hedging losses.

If this was a genuine crisis, our swire mangers (sic) would be greeting workers with a bow at the front of HelloKittyCity, apologizing for their incompetent management skills and the billions of dollars of losses, and leading from the front with, limiting themselves to the same ARAPA type levels as existing staff who are on it, (and to remain so until ARAPA staff get an increase), double digit percentage pay cuts themselves, and zero bonuses, from either swire or cx.

Until they lead from the front, then there is NO REAL CRISIS.

This is just a money grab, to reduce costs now under a convenient, possibly even engineered loss, type of excuse in order to maximise profits AND huge bonuses, only equaled by the champagne popping laughing backslapping that will occur if this ARAPA attack is allowed to continue without an equal reaction back.

This is the line in the sand, they've crossed it. Time to push back.

I hear there's a lot of flu, bad backs, migraines and diarrhea around very shortly, and it's likely to be very contagious
Is this to be led by the AOA and our president? Of course not, he's out stealing another spine from a jellyfish.
Rod - where are you?

So Lowkoon, you asked are they that stupid, yes sir, I think they are.

Long time.

I agree with everything you have said, except I don't think their real goal is ARAPA. That is a classic mis-direction which appears to be working just fine.

I think the real aim is much bigger - to them and to the pilot body - and much more costly to all of us.

Imagine the savings to be had if all 3000 (4000?) pilots can now fly to 90 or 92 hours free of overtime? That would make the ARAPA cuts seem like a rounding error.

And what's more, this will come like a bolt out of the blue to those on HKPA because they think they've dodged a bullet up till now.

So yes, we are that stupid.

The issue is safety. The old days you paid a premium to attract experienced crew .
Now Loco is no less safe just because its paying 50% less salary. CX look across at HKA and HKE and easyJet etc and say why are we still paying a premium when the jobs now inherently safe? Our SOs etc are making safe FOs and Capts, so we paying too much lah.

Reduced Rostering Scheme will buy off the senior vote. There's already whispers of an expanded scheme- though nothing in writing but don't let that make a KA pilot stop and think !

Are the CX pilots aware of this scheme? I always wondered why they were paranoid about KA pilots seeking their bases.

Senior KA crew being asked if they'd like a SYD base too..

WTF people.. who makes this :mad: up? I can't believe anyone would even repeat half the :mad: posted here. It does no one in our pilot group any good.