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Emerging KA Crewing Crisis And Contact Compliance?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Emerging KA Crewing Crisis And Contact Compliance?

Old 29th Sep 2017, 13:19
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Singapore
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Emerging KA Crewing Crisis And Contact Compliance?

At a time when the DPA is preparing the membership for Contract Compliance due emerging attacks on the COS, can anybody believe today's correspondence from management ? A crewing crisis so deep we may need to reduce flying or hope Direct Entry Captains join and can pass a fickle command course.

The place is being held together by good will and G day workers. A cataclysm without logic ? Time for Plan B.
And Then is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2017, 14:53
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
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There is healthy demand for A320 Captains worldwide.

Why would they choose KA?

That is what they will be asking themselves.
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 20:01
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Way up north
Age: 40
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I have a friend that just went there. He seems happy after leaving a north american feeder. Is it really that bad? He has me thinking about going there for a good pay and quick upgrade
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 00:22
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HK
Age: 49
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The threat of DEC coming at KA would not be a motive for contract compliance if they were hired on short term contract to bridge the gap between permanent contract KA pilots being ready for the left seat and our need of expension.

But, all that expension is done in order to attack CX pilot contracts and when they are finished with them our turn will be coming.
We are now helping management stop expat housing at CX by training their pilots and when that housing is finished at CX we won't keep ours for long.

DPA and AOA must fight what's coming together and what's coming is a good motive for contract compliance.
bacou is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2017, 00:28
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Willing to fly, you would be joining us on a standard contract that would give you same money as a DEC contract 1 Month ON/OFF in China, if you have no interest in time OFF and love to study FCOMs for eventually failing your command, KA is for you!
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 03:09
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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The DPA would ultimately have to sanction any DEC, or more than likely a rapid promotion agreement. Like when the dragonair freighter skippers went to CX. Joined as FOs but sat in the LHS throughout.

The A320 line trainers would presumably be happy to carry out any new DEC 's training.
The KA trainig department said diddley squat about the numerous CX crew upgraders they've handled. Nothing we can do , its legal they bleated. BS guys, n you know it !

If there actually was a training culture at KA, then many of the guys who have missed out on command would be happy to put their names forward. Considerable numbers were A320//737 skippers before they joined KA. However , alot have no interest in subjecting themselves to the humiliation of another failure at the hands of a the egotistical A320 lynch mob.

I would imagine that any DEC would be directly supervised by management checkers.

With Monarch Airlines on the brink and Air Berlin not far behind, theres no shortage of desperadoes. D scale anyone?
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 03:44
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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It would probably be better for the company to ask why FO's don't want to attempt the KA command course and address that issue. Unless this is an excuse to bring CX pilots over to take commands.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2017, 04:31
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The World
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The issue is simple. Line pilots, especially FOs, are slack and lazy. Managements are always doing the right stuff, and are trying to HELP!

And high passing rate? The maths is simple. Either a big nominator or a small denominator.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 06:06
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by bacou View Post
Willing to fly, you would be joining us on a standard contract that would give you same money as a DEC contract 1 Month ON/OFF in China, if you have no interest in time OFF and love to study FCOMs for eventually failing your command, KA is for you!
I like time off as much as the next guy. Where I am now, I'm working 18/19 days a month for a fraction of the money.

I don't think China is an option for me without narrowbody PIC. So until then I'm looking for a decent place to park myself and live further than spitting distance from the poverty line.

What's with "eventually failing your command course?"

Also, what's this about current FO's not willing to attempt the command course?
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 08:46
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: uk
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There is a general malaise among FO's about enrolling in the command training course offered by KA. The failure rate of the PCE (pre command evaluation) is high. Command courses usually have 1 or 2 candidates on them, as most withdraw their bids after the PCE experience. The company say pass rates are high, but its based on a small base of pilots actually starting their command training.

To add salt to the wounds, a failure at any time requires sin bin time of around 1-2 years depending on availiability of the ticks in boxes
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 18:15
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Big picture stuff... Who believes it is just a coincidence that they want to have the unions allow DEC on the eve of potentially the biggest industrial showdown in the groups history? If the pilot body allows DEC, who is prepared to wager that the "new contracts" wont follow very soon after, and we have just stupidly given them the green light to replace us immediately with DECs if we don't sign? You seriously think this is just about a handful of FOs who don't want to subject themselves to a command course???? We have no new routes pending, the 321s START coming in 3 years, is no one else just the least bit suspicious of this "sudden" urgency? Blind Freddy could see the real reason for the need for DECs. It is to replace the B scalers who don't agree to the new lower deal on the way.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 23:25
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
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You get 13th month always
You get staff travel seniority on CX to the detriment of CX crew
You're soon to get seniority to bid for bases on CX aircraft
All of which you've achieved without the DPA consulting with the AOA

Let's see where this all goes
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2017, 01:06
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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The 13 month was negotiated “away” by the AOA and included in salary.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 01:48
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I hear from ears in the UK that KA are circling around the imminent carcass of Monarch UK. Perhaps a deal for wet leases ?
Who knows. But there will be a few hundred A320 skippers floating around after the sunday midnight CAA ATOL withdrawal.

No more crewing crisis @ KA!
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 02:42
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Then they can be fast tracked FOs and take a slot in seniority. No need for DECs, whats the hurry? First 321 is mid 2020, plenty of time for the Monarch guys to be lobotomised and realise you cant live in HK on the money. DECs will only be used against us industrially, or as a band aid approach to fixing the problem that is the 2 big gorillas in the room,
1, "WHY IS IT LESS THAN 12 MONTHS TO COMMAND WHEN WE HAD NO NEW ROUTES, (in fact dropping destinations) AND NO NEW AIRCRAFT COMING FOR 3 YEARS?
2. WHY IS THE LEAVING LIST LONGER THAN THE JOINING LIST?"

Neither of these reasons are reasons for us to bend over and accept DECs, they are a Trojan Horse industrially that will be used against us when they come after housing. Purely and simply.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 04:18
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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KA is suffering from a 100% MANAGEMENT induced crewing crisis..
Some management jackass with a spreadsheet years back decided on a crewing plan that would save huge bucks. Now, that manager is probably gone with his monster "great idea" year end bonus and guess what's happened.. His short term save big bucks get huge bonus plan has collapsed.. What a surprise...

And in perfect Swire MO, take a wild guess who is getting the blame ? It's those nasty pilots again ! Sadly this is as predictable as the sun coming up in the East..
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 06:27
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Staggers, lost 2 ports in Japan, so that nulifies KUL expansion crew wise surely. 5 330s, yes, but we have seen 1? growth of what, 2%? Hardly constitutes DEC in my humble opinion.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 11:34
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Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
You get 13th month always
You get staff travel seniority on CX to the detriment of CX crew
You're soon to get seniority to bid for bases on CX aircraft
All of which you've achieved without the DPA consulting with the AOA

Let's see where this all goes

I will be very glad to see such comment if I am the management. Even before the management takes the sword out. The two groups just can't wait to KO each other.

Can we identify the real one to tackle, please? Unless you're the one who is trying to take benefits from alienating!
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 17:29
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by Lowkoon View Post
Staggers, lost 2 ports in Japan, so that nulifies KUL expansion crew wise surely. 5 330s, yes, but we have seen 1? growth of what, 2%? Hardly constitutes DEC in my humble opinion.
5 flts a day to KUL, daily PEN plus the extra a320. People are flat out-i spoke to a ka guy who did 97 hours last month.
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Old 2nd Oct 2017, 18:48
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
Posts: 520
Let me guess, he's a trainer who suspiciously has one of those candidates who struggle with the cruise component of the flight and has to switch his roster to all the HKTs... Plenty of them. Plenty more guys that haven't seen a second of overtime in years than there are overworked souls at 95+.

Fast track commands yes, but out of seniority? No. New joiners can have one, as long as no one else on the list with minimum qualifications above them wants it. Why should that suddenly change because we are getting few clapped out airframes from big brother? Its not like it was a surprise, we have known they were coming for the best part of six months at least.
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