Jizz,

I hope you are right, but 2000 pilots seems like a bit of a stretch when there are not even that many CX pilots based in Hong Kong. Also, who's going to pay all those mortgages, certainly not 120K per month. If they add schooling to the mix 120K might look attractive to some expat FOs lower on the seniority list and perhaps some LEPs, but you'd have to crazy to jump at that from a CX captain's seat or even being close.

Cpt. Underpants

You are a funny guy :ok:

JIzzMonkey

I have a question for you . Do you think there is as an honest and respectable Airline Company in existence today ? If you are convinced of such then you are dillusional !

Where's Algol gone?
 

How's your cold wind going?

Stanley Ho buys 1/3 of JM
 

10:41am: Bloomberg reports that Qantas and China Eastern Airline’s Hong Kong budget airline venture sold a stake in their airline to a company founded by billionaire Stanley Ho, which will help pave the way for an operating license.
The low-cost carrier, called Jetstar Hong Kong, sold a 33.3 per cent stake to Shun Tak Holdings, Sydney-based Qantas said in a statement today.
Qantas and China Eastern will hold 33.3 per cent each, according to the statement. The total capitalisation of Jetstar Hong Kong remains unchanged at $US198 million.
With the addition of the partner, Qantas group cut its initial planned equity investment to $US66 million from up to $US99 million. China Eastern and Shun Tak will also contribute up to $US66 million each, the statement said.


Read more: http://http://www.smh.com.au/busines...#ixzz2VOY6C4RM

Cathay lets fly at Jetstar's Hong Kong plan
Looks like CX is really **** scared about the impending arrival of Crapstar to the HK skies?

Being scared straight from the heart? Its time folks.


A better economy for the city or allow a monopoly? What do you think will the government choose? Locals have spoken!

CX is a public company listed on the Hong Kong Exchange, the largest shareholder is Swire Pacific which is also listed on the HK exchange. Seems to be a HK company as far as I can see. Try to not look to deep, you might find an airline in Oz who's foreign ownership has been questioned a number of times.

CX is using the argument that their head office is in Australia and not HK. Talking with people who have applied for work with JQ, they have been told that it will be done out of Australia!

All the Executive Directors at Swire Pacific are employees of John Swire and Sons Ltd. John Swire & Sons Ltd. head office is listed as Swire House, 59 Buckingham Gate, London SW1E 6AJ, England. Seems to have worked out all right so far.

Actually they are employees of John Swire and Sons (HK) Ltd, head office in Pacific Place HK...

Strewth

You do realise that if Cathay Pacific tried to set up an international airline in Australia they would be blocked by the Australian government because of the requirement for 51% ownership by Australians. Hong Kong has the same 51% ownership rule. Hong Kong isn’t China and China Eastern’s partnership doesn’t count as Hong Kong ownership period and Shun Tak Holding is only a minority shareholding. Unless Qantas changes the structure of their proposed "franchise" they, I’m afraid are in for a hiding to nowhere. A shelf company majority owned by foreign companies just won’t cut it. They are going to find out the hard way though how business is conducted in this city.

You also seem to have a very short memory because it was only a few short years ago that Singapore Airlines wanted to operate 5th freedom flights from Australia to the USA. Qantas were squawking like stuffed pigs and lobbied the Federal Government to block them.

Regarding the directors of John Swire & Sons (HK) Ltd, you do realise that it is a very common practice for directors of a company to be directors of multiple companies. Sh*t, most of QF’s board of directors are directors of multiple companies. Swire Pacific, not John Swire & Sons (HK) Ltd is the largest shareholder in CX. Swire Pacific which is a publically listed company on the HKSE is 44% owned by John Swire & Sons Ltd with the majority of shareholders being local Hong Kong investors.

To say the Hong Kong SAR Government is pissed off with Qantas would be an understatement. You don’t get things done in this town without including the government in your planning. To ambush the government with megaphone tactics, i.e. mass media releases before even discussing your plans with them was a major, major foe par.

Swire Fast Facts 2012

Strewth

Get a life. CX is a HK listed company and has been for many many years. As such it meets all the local requirements of directors and executives.

Jetstar Japan may be a better place to focus. BTW ..any of you guys with bus hours and approaching retirement...Japan beckons..paid holiday in a country with great food and golf. The salary ain't too bad either ..as long as you don't get claustrophobic in a 320.

Strewth

Qantas doesn’t want to set up a domestic operation in Hong Kong so you point is mute. All flights to and from Hong Kong are international flights requiring the Hong Kong government to negotiate on behalf of all Hong Kong airlines the rights to operate these flights, including to mainland China. Domestic flights in Australia don’t require the Australian government doing any negotiation on behalf of the airlines that operate domestically.

Just because Hong Kong doesn’t have a domestic aviation market because of its physical size at 62km x 45km, doesn’t give Qantas the right to try and use it against them to have the law changed to suite their own financial reasons. If Qantas want to set up a Jetstar franchise here it has to be 51% locally owned period just like any Australian airline that wants to operate internationally out of Australia has to be 51% Australian owned. And for the record Virgin Australia was broken up into two companies to comply with this law. Virgin Australia (International) is 51% locally owned.

Yes Cathay and or Swire could set up a domestic airline in Australia. Again this is a direct result of Australia’s physical size which supports a domestic aviation market. Whether they want too though is another matter. They do though have about 300 pilots based in Australia that are willing and able to fly those planes if it was ever to happened. This would severely affect the profitability of Qantas’s cash cow domestic operations potentially pushing the whole group into a loss making situation that is terminal.

I hate "mute" points.

They are so moot.

Try 180 pilots.

Fr8r H8tr

Whoops. In a way though I would like to hit the mute button on this whole topic.

744frt

So it is. If they opened the bases up though I'm sure that they would be inundated by Aussies wanting to take up a base.

I think our little friend Strewth should have a read of the Hong Kong Basic Law. Article 128 would be a good starting point.




Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

Strewth
What has capacity rights between Australia and Hong Kong got to do with Jetstar Hong Kong? It is irrelevant to the debate at hand and a distraction by you along with most of your arguments. If Qantas find it hard to fill aircraft then that’s their problem. Cathay certainly doesn’t and could easily fill additional flights if capacity was increased.
I suggest you read Article 135 again and think about it. Article 135 has nothing to do with it.
CX has already stated it has no problem with competition from LCC or any other airline. It already competes with 107 airlines in the Hong Kong market including 17 LCC’s. The only thing that will slow down much more competition is the capacity of HKIA.
That is only because of the late take up of LCC in Asia. Your 30% figure is greatly distorted by the percentage of pax using LCC in Europe and North America. The reason only seventeen LCC’s operate into HKIA is because of the cost of operating here. The reason LCC’s are so successful in Europe and North America is that they generally operate into secondary airports. I won’t even get started about the propensity of secondary airport owners in Europe to pay the LCC’s to operate there.
All air services agreements involving HK carriers and mainland carriers operating between HKSAR and PRC is done in consultation with the HKSAR government as per Article 131. The reality is that most air services agreements for HKSAR carriers are negotiated under Article 133, this includes between HKSAR and Australia.
Jetstar Hong Kong is 66.6% owned by foreign airlines, i.e. 33.3% by Qantas and 33.3% by China Eastern. By its own admission Jetstar Hong Kong is a franchise airline of Jetstar and controlled by Jetstar and Qantas in Australia. Please enlighten me how this business model complies with Hong Kong’s Basic Law. The business model proposed clearly indicates that its principle place of business is in Australia where control will be centred. I also seem to recall the Australian regulator CASA grounding Tiger Airways Australian franchise because control was in Singapore with the parent company rather than in Australia. Pretty hypocritical of Qantas to try and do the same thing in Hong Kong which was clearly unacceptable in Australia.

Jetstar HK will definitely launch, its just the matter of time. Wait and see.

I beg to differ Soul Planet.

Only if they have KFC on the menu, surely? :E

STP

Strewth

This was written by Andrew Pyne in Crikey.com in March last year. It’s still 100% relevant now as it involves the exact issue we are talking about.

Jetstar Hong Kong, and some flag carrier issues

And this today in the Sydney Morning Herald.

Jetstar Hong Kong runs into more turbulence

The reality is that the precedent has already been set in Hong Kong since the Basic Law became the constitution of the HKSAR in 1997. The formation of Hong Kong Airlines in 2006 from the old CR Airways was structured specifically to comply with the Basic Law. Hainan Airlines through its holding company Grand China Air bought a 45% share in Hong Kong Airlines with the remaining 55% being bought by Hong Kong businessman Mung Kin Keung.