Toxic
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Toxic
An extract from a training firms website plus some examples I could think of off the top of my head. 'The Seven Signs of A Toxic Work Environment'
The following behaviors and work conditions could be signs of a toxic work environment:
The following behaviors and work conditions could be signs of a toxic work environment:
- Pervasive office gossip. Talking about what’s happening at work with the people you work with is only natural. However, when those conversations turn negative and non-productive, they can cross the threshold and become petty gossip. It is never a good sign when gossip, rather than constructive feedback, becomes the norm in an organization.
- Gossip here has always been out of control here, like my Granny's knitting group on speed, but removing Yammer certainly didn't help.
- High levels of workplace stress. Every job carries with it its own set of responsibilities and the occasional tight deadline. But that feeling that everyone is constantly running on fumes because everything is constantly “on fire,” is usually unhealthy.
- Overwhelmed training system, reduced experience for FOs & CNs, reduced training sectors for all
- Threat emails such as the recent 'taxi quicker' love note
- D&G for any number of things
- Financial penalties for calling in sick
- Forced contract changes that many are still adjusting too with their families
- No care for mental health and physical health. Covid and work from home really changed how we talk about mental and physical health at work. There’s now much more alignment among company leaders that considering and supporting employees’ mental and physical health is important. A workplace that doesn’t allow employees to take care of their whole selves might be toxic.
- If the company and all its managers not standing up for crews during the inhuman COVID requirements period aren't example enough;
- D&G (presented in a intimidatory manner) for sick leave and/or mental stress leave
- Delayed command courses & upgrades for those who put safety first & took time off
- Severe reduction to medical insurance & preventative health benefits
- Reduced annual leave for all levels
- Unsustainable work hours. Constant demands to work outside of business hours erodes work-life balance and ultimately leads to toxicity.
- Unstable roster
- Technically legal but physically demanding rostering practices that promote fatigue
- A roster request system that seems to puzzle all users, offering little to no control over work-life balance for crews
- Lack of respect for personal and professional boundaries. Just as with romantic partners, friends, and family, setting boundaries with work is important. If those boundaries are consistently violated, the workplace may be unhealthy.
- Paperwork, reports & admin expected on days off
- Requirement to reveal private medical details on sickness certificate
- A lack of investment in DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) efforts. Research proves that the best work is done when people who don’t think alike, look alike, or share overly similar lived experiences come together. A homogeneous workplace, or one that isn’t attempting to invest in and support a diverse team, may be toxic.
- Having 4 women fly a plane together to tick the women box once a year
- Putting rainbows up on the street to tick the LGBTI+ box once a year
- Closer of bases and loss of high levels of experience
- Failure to recognize good performance. Good work always deserves recognition. A healthy team is one that celebrates stellar work, as well as the people who went above and beyond to do it.
- Just like a PC, mistakes, omissions and errors are well documented and discussed, good work gets a 'quick mention' from time to time
- Any kind of sick leave seems to eliminate any amount of good work done previously
- Managers rewarded with up 50% financial reward for their 'good work' whilst those who kept the airline operating during the most significant crisis in its history got a small ex-gratia payment, plus all of the above
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Well said. When Yammer got taken away and was replaced with a linkedin version positive vibes only cathay social, management did not even have to hide the fact they gave 2 sh*ts about the concerns crew. Every policy revision has only gotten worse. How does a company turn a payraise into a paycut? How does a company charge super high fares and still not have profits to share? How did C suite execs make double the salary when the company was at a loss and poorly managed? How do you get away with paying 9100 HKD to cabin crew living in the most expensive city in the world? Like all oppressed individuals, we can only suffer in silence. Not a word, just in silence.
Will the company start requesting having our pprune posts tracked to our real names in the future? I wouldn't be surprised.
Will the company start requesting having our pprune posts tracked to our real names in the future? I wouldn't be surprised.
You all remember the Haddon-Cave survey?
He criticised the usual CX issues (similar to what was listed above, ie.: absence management, split duties, fatigue, toxic work environment…)
Literally nothing came from it
He criticised the usual CX issues (similar to what was listed above, ie.: absence management, split duties, fatigue, toxic work environment…)
Literally nothing came from it
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literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.
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So according to your logic since pilots would still hate the company anyway CX might as well not give them any money or even better make conditions even worse ?
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.
literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.
The findings did get published (I think Fatana was the DFO) and they responded with a few fixes; most of the issues were put into the too hard basket straight away
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Oh yeah. I remember the fix. It was illy coffee satchels. That fixed everything! Honestly as progress Wan chai said in another thread. The comments here are laughable. A few years ago you were in 4 years of contract compliance and training ban. But now with a forced sign or else, it's all evaporated! Total joke.
Reflecting on what CX have done over the past 2 years, plus their own blatant executive gluttony, I commend any pilot who continues to justify why this is the best option they have.
I look at my self worth, the country I come from as well as my self respect in the face of adversity and I cannot compete with the CX pilots who continue to tolerate this.
I even appreciate the individuals who continue to promote the airline on social media when they really have no regard for staff, you too are cut from a special cloth.
The belief that things can only get better will not stand the test when CX have a workforce that have tolerated such abuse.
My moral compass needs recalibration, CX recruitment has done a remarkable job.
I look at my self worth, the country I come from as well as my self respect in the face of adversity and I cannot compete with the CX pilots who continue to tolerate this.
I even appreciate the individuals who continue to promote the airline on social media when they really have no regard for staff, you too are cut from a special cloth.
The belief that things can only get better will not stand the test when CX have a workforce that have tolerated such abuse.
My moral compass needs recalibration, CX recruitment has done a remarkable job.
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So according to your logic since pilots would still hate the company anyway CX might as well not give them any money or even better make conditions even worse ?
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.
If I offered you $500,000 HKD per month to work as a baggage handler at the airport and you had to wear a Bud Lite t-shirt, you would take it in a heart beat <-- I would!
And on top of that you would love you job and tell people it's cool as you drive to work in your Lambo.
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literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
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For some people it's the money, for some its the lack of flexibility, or the culture.
For me it's the lack of flexibility, no part time, no reverse rostering or basing.
For me it's the lack of flexibility, no part time, no reverse rostering or basing.
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Most of the things I dislike about CX isn't to do with the money, it's the culture. Whilst I agree that many other airlines have some of the same issues, I don't believe many are as toxic as here. I've interviewed with several other carriers in recent months and the lifestyle control and support the offer as standard is much, much better when thinking about a long-term career with a family.
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How can you say that!? As a result of that review Cathay immediately changed the A Day travel rules which royally and unnecessarily scr@wed a lot of based pilots.
How’s the hunt for pilots going? Will CX ultimately be forced to drastically improve COS18 and join the real world or are they just too stubborn?
I hear Airbus guys are getting 80 hours plus a month flying but 777 not so much. What about 747 pilots in the cargo department, good flying or still quiet?
I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet. Apparently a lot of toxic middle management have been removed or fired which if true is a good start I guess.
Who knows maybe they have hit rock bottom and realised they need to get their act together ASAP.
I hear Airbus guys are getting 80 hours plus a month flying but 777 not so much. What about 747 pilots in the cargo department, good flying or still quiet?
I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet. Apparently a lot of toxic middle management have been removed or fired which if true is a good start I guess.
Who knows maybe they have hit rock bottom and realised they need to get their act together ASAP.
It’s strange returnees would say that, when the Boeing CP said at a recent Fleet Forum “if any of you have a decent job offer with another airline, take it as there will be no chance of this place getting any better”.
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Quote,
“I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet”
My laughter bordered on the hysterical………………
The Cav
“I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet”
My laughter bordered on the hysterical………………
The Cav
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Returnees were welcomed with open arms.
Except..
-back to the bottom of the priority list for rostering, which doesn't seem to work anyway..
-back to the bottom of the staff travel list
-and a training bond
-they call you a brushwinger
Except..
-back to the bottom of the priority list for rostering, which doesn't seem to work anyway..
-back to the bottom of the staff travel list
-and a training bond
-they call you a brushwinger
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The former GMO was the only decent manager we had and I would listen to but that is an operational/technical position not much to do with all that is wrong at the moment.
An effort to improve things ? Your friends got the wrong address, they are at CXC.
I sympathize with the based pilots or the ones that were initially not extended past 55 but if you resigned it is fair you start from the bottom.
An effort to improve things ? Your friends got the wrong address, they are at CXC.
I sympathize with the based pilots or the ones that were initially not extended past 55 but if you resigned it is fair you start from the bottom.