Emirates Roadshow HONG KONG March.
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I average 70-75 hours a month. Mostly Europe trips which are 7ish hours on average, 24 hours off and back. If it’s a morning start then it’s a 2 day trip of daytime flights, otherwise day out, night return which touches on 3 days. Easy stuff. One long haul a month crediting 28-32 hours. 42 days leave.
Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.
Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.
I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.
As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.
I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.
Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.
As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.
Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.
Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.
I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.
As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.
I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.
Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.
As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !
short flights long nights
I average 70-75 hours a month. Mostly Europe trips which are 7ish hours on average, 24 hours off and back. If it’s a morning start then it’s a 2 day trip of daytime flights, otherwise day out, night return which touches on 3 days. Easy stuff. One long haul a month crediting 28-32 hours. 42 days leave.
Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.
Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.
I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.
As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.
I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.
Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.
As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.
Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.
Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.
I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.
As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.
I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.
Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.
As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.
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Don’t know which fleet you were on but I never had any problem on the flight deck, quite pleasant actually. Loved to flight with the based guys which was a loss but atmosphere is still decent, even the ex 777 are nice ! They own the place ! Pilots are not the problem.
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !
first civvy job? That says it all really. No disrespect to him, but you don’t know what you don’t know.
SOPS, I got all of the leave I requested. Kept some back for live leave. I won’t bank on anything, after banking on not getting a 40% pay cut and many other benefits taken away.
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FO's do indeed have 70-75hrs a month, and it's a cushy lifestyle. Captains are working hard at 100hrs and that makes a huge impact throughout your experience of EK and Dubai. Every FO is happy, every Capt is tired and moaning about rosters/leave. That explains the differing reports you may hear.
100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.
There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).
As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.
True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.
I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.
In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.
Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.
100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.
There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).
As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.
True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.
I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.
In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.
Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.
And remember to slip, slop, slap, seek and slide!
For the uninitiated:
Last edited by BuzzBox; 28th Jun 2023 at 11:54.
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My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.
loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..
Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.
Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.
YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.
Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.
Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.
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The pools/clubs are packed despite the 40 degrees. It's cool enough to run/cycle in the mornings, and desert safaris are still fine in the evening. There's a ton of indoor sport options. Use the staff travel for a getaway. Meet up with friends. Training/Gym. Work on a side-business. Chase girls. Play music. Read. Study. Theme parks. Hang with your kids. Skiing and snow park if you miss the cold. And yes, the shopping mall with all the usual activities. Just to name a few things.
What is it exactly you imagine the heat prevents you from doing? Life doesn't stop because you can't go for a walk in the midday sun.
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You have no more weather constraints than you do in HK. In fact fewer because there’s so much indoors.
My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.
loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..
Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.
Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.
YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.
Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.
Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.
My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.
loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..
Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.
Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.
YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.
Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.
Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.
Now I know for certain this is a wind-up.
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What's the latest regarding housing? Rumour has it no more cash / own mortgage scheme?
Looks like the market is still going up in Dubai, interesting if you consider interest rate north of 5% now.. Kudos to those who buy into such a market, bold move..I am probably biased, but my money ( literally) is on the HK market. Too much lopen space ready to be built onto in Dubai for my liking, plus Saudia and India copying the business model.. In 10-20 years you might see 50 degrees in that region.. Then again, less risk regarding China/Taiwan compared to here and could be a permanent tax haven.. Time will tell I guess.
Looks like the market is still going up in Dubai, interesting if you consider interest rate north of 5% now.. Kudos to those who buy into such a market, bold move..I am probably biased, but my money ( literally) is on the HK market. Too much lopen space ready to be built onto in Dubai for my liking, plus Saudia and India copying the business model.. In 10-20 years you might see 50 degrees in that region.. Then again, less risk regarding China/Taiwan compared to here and could be a permanent tax haven.. Time will tell I guess.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 29th Jun 2023 at 02:29.
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I've lived and worked in both places and am currently in neither. COS18...never heard of him.
You should learn to stop whinging, log off from this platform and go enjoy the lifestyle you desperately feel the need to advertise here (and for free).
You should learn to stop whinging, log off from this platform and go enjoy the lifestyle you desperately feel the need to advertise here (and for free).
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FO's do indeed have 70-75hrs a month, and it's a cushy lifestyle. Captains are working hard at 100hrs and that makes a huge impact throughout your experience of EK and Dubai. Every FO is happy, every Capt is tired and moaning about rosters/leave. That explains the differing reports you may hear.
100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.
There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).
As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.
True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.
I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.
In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.
Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.
100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.
There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).
As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.
True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.
I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.
In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.
Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.
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Speak for yourself. Many colleague f/o' s are not happy at all but there is no alternative. Going back to their home country with their fam isn't an option.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.
You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?
Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.
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So by your own admission you wouldn't be happy being a pilot anywhere except US legacy. Change career or start a business if you think you are entitled to more in life. Apply for the green card lottery and head to the US. Go get it, king!
You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?
Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.
You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?
Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.
Happiness is not a binary thing. It is very subjective. So you are happy with your driver, maid and nannies, who are afraid of you. Did you ever talk to them on a personal humane level? I like to raise our kids myself. How much money do you need to be happy? The fact that you can be fired in an eyeblink does not make me happy and you? That you as an employee have zero rights does not make me happier, how about you?
For me happiness involves spending time with my family, being able to plan time with them, having some control of my life outside of work. What good is being able to travel in Business/ First when you don't have off days? And are tired.
It is all relative. If you lose your job, Emirates is walhalla. But there must have been a reason why one didn't want to come and be here sooner. Good luck with your maids, nannies and money, you can always use luck.
At least in Dubai you can pretend to be something.