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Direct entry command.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Direct entry command.

Old 29th Apr 2022, 04:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 391
Commute to where? Within Asia, to Australia/Oz? Of course much better at Cathay. Again, naturally not at the moment. To Europe hard / borderline insane at Cathay ( in my opinion anyway) but IMPOSSIBLE at Qatar. Forget it, thousands have tried and failed. You can't commute from any gulf airline to anywhere, period ( maybe India?) Not even SA. If you doubt that there is no point to argue, we just have to leave it there.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 04:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Commute to where? Within Asia, to Australia/Oz? Of course much better at Cathay. Again, naturally not at the moment. To Europe hard / borderline insane at Cathay ( in my opinion anyway) but IMPOSSIBLE at Qatar. Forget it, thousands have tried and failed. You can't commute from any gulf airline to anywhere, period ( maybe India?) Not even SA. If you doubt that there is no point to argue, we just have to leave it there.
The reason there is no point to argue WITH YOU is that in the face of ALL the evidence to the contrary, you will maintain that YOU are right and everyone else must be wrong.
I told you my friend is commuting and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.
I told you my friend is making more money than I was in cx (after tax) and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.
I told you my friend is flying less hours than his counterpart in cx and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.

“Not at the moment” meaning how long?
Before the pandemic my friend was able to commute much more often (to Europe) than he is now, but you want to compare the best commuting days of cx with the worst commuting days at qr.
That way either of us can win ANY argument.

Bottom line: many of your initial statements and comparisons were not based in fact, ie WRONG.
Some were.

They might have been correct in the past and might be again in the future, but my friend in qr is seeing his family at least once a month (not enough in my book).
My friend in cx hasn’t seen his family in over a year.
But yes: STW WILL maintain that commuting options are much better in cx (just not right now….🤦🏼‍♂️).

Edit: I forgot to mention: my friend (I know, I know) lives in a 4 bedroom villa in a compound with a nice pool and gym, which he pays for with his housing allowance (not sure if your google document mentions that, because apparently not everyone qualifies for that).
He doesn’t have to live that luxurious, he could also downsize and pocket the housing allowance he’s not using. Try that in cx. Oh, I forgot, ARAPA is dead anyway.

Last edited by Piet Lood; 29th Apr 2022 at 04:41.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 05:34
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 8
Well we all agree that middle east is replacing rotten apple with rotten bananas.
Whats interesting is the 400 odd Australian CX pilots conducting testing for Qantas. Even if only 50% made it through then it would be surprising if none took it
and the large number of guys going to Atlas and E3 sponsoring regionals in the USA on a weekly basis....
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 07:55
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
Posts: 340
Regardless, CX is losing pilots at a rapid rate and l’m sure most don’t care about the money anymore.

It’s more about the hostile management, archaic government and the loss of liberties under the watchful eye of the CCP.

So, what is the price of that? I’m fairly sure as a European, QR would be a lot better to see your family occasionally.


Last edited by KABOY; 29th Apr 2022 at 08:11.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 08:00
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
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Posts: 391
There is one pilot of 3000 in Qatar who is able to commute ( by coincidence a good mate of Piet). The rest are either flying a 100 block to India back and forth or sitting in a mall at Starbucks and wondering what went wrong in their lives.

But sure, if you want to escape hostile management, archaic government and loss of liberties, there is no better place than Qatar.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 08:15
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
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There is one pilot of 3000 in Qatar who is able to commute ( by coincidence a good mate of Piet). The rest are either flying a 100 block to India back and forth or sitting in a mall at Starbucks and wondering what went wrong in their lives.
Are these your mates STW? You criticise Piet, but then you create a scenario based upon?

People have moved beyond STW, it appears you have a problem with that?

I hear EK have restored all the pre covid contracts to those they terminated, can’t see that happening at CX.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 08:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by KABOY View Post

I hear EK have restored all the pre covid contracts to those they terminated, can’t see that happening at CX.
They will have to, market forces. 800 Cadets will not change that, but they are still comfortable in sticking their head in the sand at the moment. Wait till flights are cancelled due to insufficient crew. Money will start to flap all over the place.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 09:45
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Afganistan
Posts: 77
This entire debate is based on the assumption that CXi is going to survive and thrive - which I very much doubt.

Some possible scenarios are:
  • CXi goes t.ts up (no more Govt money, sorry);
  • Gets absorbed by another airline (locals only);
  • Goes all out LCC (certainly heading that way).

One fact is clear: with a 5 BILLION USD loan to repay at 9% interest in 3 years from now, the company will not get into the black for a very very long time to come.

To me that means no future bonus, no pay rises (ever), but instead more and more erosion of current conditions, history just repeating itself.

Time to log off, clock off, and f… off

Last edited by Cury Lamb; 29th Apr 2022 at 20:30.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 11:53
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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Originally Posted by Cury Lamb View Post
This entire debate is based on the assumption that CXi is going to survive and thrive - which I very much doubt.

Sone possible scenarios are:
  • CXi goes t.ts up (no more Govt money, sorry);
  • Gets absorbed by another airline (locals only);
  • Goes all out LCC (certainly heading that way).

One fact is clear: with a 5 BILLION USD loan to repay at 9% interest in 3 years from now, the company will not get into the black for a very very long time to come.

To me that means no future bonus, no pay rises (ever), but instead more and more erosion of current conditions, history just repeating itself.

Time to log off, clock off, and f… off
Aircrew pay is a fraction of the total operating cost. Can’t run an airline without pilots, yet..
need that hardship money to attract expats, lots of it.
same with other industries in Hong Kong.

ofcourse predicated of if it survives.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 12:22
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Vermont
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 12:44
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 391
Ok, Piet, I bite.

Define commuting.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 29th Apr 2022 at 12:59.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 12:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
How long is a piece of string?
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 15:47
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
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Posts: 391
About 3-5 days a month when you work for Qatar. Maybe, if you are lucky. Ridiculous.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 16:24
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 46
Which, again, is more than you can do in cx right now.
Ridiculous indeed.
From Merriam-Webster:




I reckon you will now start to argue that flying back to your family once a year is also considered “regularly” and that hence commuting options at qr and cx are the same.
Or that my friend isn’t really commuting, since he is not travelling between a suburb and a city.
I feel foolish arguing with you, but I can’t help it.
It’s stronger than myself and I DO get off rubbing your face in your own stupidity and arrogance.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 16:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Age: 54
Posts: 391
Of course anything is better than the current state at Cathay. I would never argue with that. If you assume the status quo will continue, you are right. How likely is that?

Piet, you are dishonest. You know very well that commuting at Qatar is impossible.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 16:33
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 46
I give up. Bill Murray is right.
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Old 30th Apr 2022, 08:29
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 391
Piet, cool down, I come in peace. We are all in the same boat.

QR is ( unfortunately) no better alternative to CX.

Can you commute to Europe at QR?


Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 30th Apr 2022 at 09:00.
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Old 30th Apr 2022, 10:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 46
Ah the famous “username taken” has given you an answer on PPRuNe.
I’m convinced now and stand corrected.
I’ll tell my friend he’s full of shit!

(I’ll also tell my cx friend that he’s full of shit too and that him not seeing his family for a year plus isn’t any worse than qr’s situation).

Do you honestly ever self reflect and read your own drivel?

Last edited by Piet Lood; 30th Apr 2022 at 11:28.
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Old 30th Apr 2022, 11:30
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
Can you ladies please stop swinging your handbags at each other?
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Old 30th Apr 2022, 11:46
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Can you ladies please stop swinging your handbags at each other?
Oh, come now. I find it quite entertaining. 🥳🍿
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