Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Death of Cathay

Old 7th Feb 2021, 06:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45
Wow. People. So much hostility and over analysis. We all know how devastating Covid is proving to be for the entire industry. As a 'KA throwaway' I can attest that nobody is 'sitting pretty' in this whether it be the newly unemployed or those remaining in CX on a massive pay cut and zero faith in their future. A few home truths from my perspective though. Don't panic. Sit on your hands as you're trained to do. It's going to take a while for things to get better but for those that want/need to stay you will be surprised at how few that have either left already or remain in CX will actually be a threat to your aviation future here when things do pick up. There are so many here that simply won't stomach the new package for long and neither will many return from the KA graveyard for it either, given the option. Some will, for sure, but you'll be amazed how many won't which will be good tidings for those that could do without the competition. Just hang in there if you're still in CX and want to stay. Take what money they're offering, reign in your cost of living and batten down the hatches until things pick up. Here's a quick clue to feeling better. Don't read PPRuNe if you're feeling vulnerable. Good luck to those trying to stick it out. I'm happily done with it. One less competing for your future.
Weary traveller is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 06:47
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 577
Wise words.

Safe travels, weary traveler.
main_dog is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 07:50
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 402
why haven't all Cx flight and cabin crew been vaccinated yet?
Cx is a Gweilo company is a Chinese city they can't just bang tables and demand inoculation jabs.

Sq situation is different: "We are grateful to the Singapore government for making the aviation sector a priority in the country's vaccination exercise,"


CodyBlade is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 08:24
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 97
Don't think that's it this time although that might often be a factor. No one in Hong Kong has been vaccinated, they haven't even approved the Chinese vaccines for us here yet. What a disgrace, somewhere that normally leads in innovation just doing nothing not a single vaccine. What are they thinking.
LLLQNH is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 10:15
  #25 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 74
I've been in this industry for decades with several different airlines and have been thru several crisis ending up in layoffs. I've been in the bottom group getting the layoff notice. This is how it has always been in this industry. If you don't know the history and reality of the industry you're in, you need to go do something else which you do understand. I'd rather this company survived for half of it's employees at least. This way it won't survive for any. Without good will of the employees no company will survive anything close to this disaster. And cathay has made sure there's no good will or care about the future of this company among it's most important most difficult to keep and replace employees. Like I said before, it's a company not a charity. Good luck to any who are stupid enough to still own cathay stocks. This is not how a business survives.

Last edited by VforVENDETTA; 8th Feb 2021 at 13:27.
VforVENDETTA is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 13:53
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: A subdivided flat
Posts: 20
LLLQNH is right... as a local I can confirmAs long as the government keeps procrastinating HK will still live in a shadow of its former self. How hasn't anyone been vaccinated yet? Probably because the Fosun Pharma vaccine hasn't arrived yet and Carrie's kowtowing
​​​​​
Sleepsleep is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 14:09
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 171
Singapore ordered vaccine from Pfizer, Mordena and Sino back in October 2020.

Talk about forward planning.
wongsuzie is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 15:25
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: still in bed
Posts: 190
Cathay demise
is inevitable and is better this way than a serious air crash. First officers with their career on “line check” that fly one a year? And fail! Captains that to volunteer fir a two hours flight have to stay 14 days in a small hotel room? Are we asking quarantine fir the doctors of the hospital where active Covid patients are recovering? All this is taking a psicologic toll to the best of the crews that are the only one who fly ...cargo.. stop flying please now! Stop serving Hong Kong now! Stop accepting all this nonsense ! How many pilots have returned positive from a day of service? Where is the union ? Stop flying now!
ZAGORFLY is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 19:44
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 5
Thumbs up

thank you carolknows - great stuff!!
I rest my case!
china123 is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 19:52
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 974
Surely Cathay is at risk unless it can quickly reposition itself to be seen as a world class Chinese carrier, rather than as "The airline of Hong Kong'. The Covid crisis simply accelerated the process.
On that basis, the discussion should focus on whether Cathay has obtained new route authorities from places such as Wuhan, rather than on how they are managing their legacy expat contracts.
etudiant is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2021, 22:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: unknown
Posts: 197
Is it remotely possible the the OP just so happens to conveniently remain fully paid if his idea is put into play.

Perhaps he would he be willing to join a volunteer redundancy list to help implement this plan to save the company.
tcasblue is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 02:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NSW
Posts: 50
Remember there is no seniority protection now for redundancy.
Be careful what you wish for.
Jetdream is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 04:18
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA View Post

Cathay Pacific's future pilot pool will have to be India, Philippines, Indonesia and similar. There's no way their tin can cadet program can supply the numbers they'll need.
Whatís your point? Why are you concerned?
corrigin is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 04:48
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 20
I donít know what Cathayís management strategy is, but if itís Divide & Conquer, it seems to have been particularly effective.

If these forums are anything to go by, Iíve never seen any workforce so permanently disgruntled and divided as Cathay pilots.

Good luck to all
FMS82 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 08:53
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,746
Sq situation is different: "We are grateful to the Singapore government for making the aviation sector a priority in the country's vaccination exercise,"
The Singapore Government is taking an active interest in promoting their country and ensuring it's rapid recovery out of the pandemic. Whereas Hong Kong's 'Government' seem to want to drive the territory into the ground, probably on order from their masters, the CCP. Cathay, a foreign owned company is acceptable collateral damage in the process.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 09:03
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 2,831
SQ has always been a important part of the rise of Singapore and the Singapore "Brand" - airlines elsewhere - not so much......................
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 12:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 0
Really? Singapore? That’s the important node in the HK air travel script? Stop with your nonsense. Maybe team up with the guy currently complaining about the onboard milk. Important stuff.
PatObrien is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 14:11
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 442
The thing is, it ain’t 2 weeks in a hotel. It’s a 42 day rolling pattern, with the first 21 days taken up with a little bit of flying, combined with being locked in to an assortment of hotels, followed by a further 14 in confinement, then a further 7 on surveillance. Tested at least 5 times during that time. 2 weeks off, rinse and repeat.
So whilst no one could be unsympathetic to your plight, best get your facts right. This is a mental health train wreck waiting to happen. And no amount of pay will recompense you for that. In fact, no other regulator ( save our friends to the North, and they don’t exactly place HR issues very high on the agenda, if consider them at all) are even suggesting that their crews do this. Quite the opposite
Globocnik is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 14:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 402
All those days in a hotel. Can open the window at Headland?

We conclude that in this outbreak, droplet transmission was prompted by air-conditioned ventilation. The key factor for infection was the direction of the airflow
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article
CodyBlade is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2021, 16:09
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,626
Originally Posted by Globocnik View Post
The thing is, it ain’t 2 weeks in a hotel. It’s a 42 day rolling pattern, with the first 21 days taken up with a little bit of flying, combined with being locked in to an assortment of hotels, followed by a further 14 in confinement, then a further 7.................
That does sound horrendous.

If it were me, I think I would politely resign, hand their job back, and go and do something else - honestly I would.

It really is not worth our health to fly under terrible conditions just to keep flying. We all love actually flying, but sometimes that blinds us to the bad parts of our job. The problem is that airlines have learned that they can apply really poor terms and conditions, yet we continue to turn up for work.
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