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Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:15
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 132
To ACMS and all the other based crew. I truly hope there is some way you can keep your base, life in HK was never great but the package made it tenable.

This new contract makes it virtually impossible for a FO with two school age kids move to HK. 22k for housing will not go far and you can expect to pay about 20k per month to top up the inadequate school allowances, this is without considering debentures, uniforms or field trips, those will be extra. Now take a look at your base pay rate, unless you are on the 747, that is all you will see for the next 12-24 months. Can you even break even? I don't think you can.

God forbid you or one of your family members get sick, you will be faced with a very significant bill due to completely inadequate medical benefits.

I wish you all the best but I don't see any future here.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:19
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 421
Sorry, ACMS, normally I would agree with you but not on this. Disregarding the current stand down on 50%, if both bases are doing no flying, the Aus CN is about HK30k more expensive. Base+15.5% vs Base+10%+housing. 5.5 for the exchange.
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:39
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: FL310
Posts: 49
Jesus! Let it Go FFS

We are all [email protected]#$d one way or another

Thoughts to all the hard slogging KA guys that just lost everything :-(
BubbaJ is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:48
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: hong kong
Posts: 3
Whats great about COS18 rev 1?
No bypass pay,
No maternity Leave policy,
No compassionate leave policy,
No redundancy package,
No contractual FTL obligations,
No seniority benefits,
Capped and limited medical benefit,
A restaurant manager's salary. Even ISM earns more than year 1 pilot.
And great thing is its not temporary to help us get us through the pandemic. This contract is permanent! Fantastic!
Silk_flyer1980 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:49
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Unreal!!

Sitting here in disbelief. Never in my life and career as pilot did I ever think I would come across, what I believe to be fellow aviators, arguing over who is the CHEAPEST. Just goes to show where we, yes all of us have taken this industry!!
Pratt is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 07:57
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,847
Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
Sitting here in disbelief. Never in my life and career as pilot did I ever think I would come across, what I believe to be fellow aviators, arguing over who is the CHEAPEST. Just goes to show where we, yes all of us have taken this industry!!

True, I didn’t start the topic of base costs..........but I’m just sick of people taking the opportunity to stick the knife into Bases AGAIN.

Last edited by ACMS; 23rd Oct 2020 at 08:09.
ACMS is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:02
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,847
Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
Sorry, ACMS, normally I would agree with you but not on this. Disregarding the current stand down on 50%, if both bases are doing no flying, the Aus CN is about HK30k more expensive. Base+15.5% vs Base+10%+housing. 5.5 for the exchange.

While there is little flying task we are all doing nothing, HK will effectively be on exactly 55% pay plus their expat allowances and Oz based are on 50% ( actually 40% after jobkeeper )
That is what the situation is now becoming for HK and has been for 7 months for the base.

In 12 months time things will hopefully mean we can do some hours and then you’ll be comparing Apples with Apples again showing based are cheaper. Remember they can continue to stand Oz based down as long as they like on 50% or even less.......

ok.

Last edited by ACMS; 23rd Oct 2020 at 08:15.
ACMS is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:10
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 563
Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
Sitting here in disbelief. Never in my life and career as pilot did I ever think I would come across, what I believe to be fellow aviators, arguing over who is the CHEAPEST. Just goes to show where we, yes all of us have taken this industry!!
AMEN. Like scared lab mice in a cage, all of us: take him, take him! He’s fatter!

main_dog is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:22
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Usually Somewhere Else
Posts: 227
If the figures are so close people are arguing over them, then it won't come down to $ anyway; it'll come down to control. And we know how that will go....
flyboy007 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:49
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,847
Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
ACMS, did you add in the HKD33,000 monthly allowance into the equation?

And by 84 hours, did you mean "about 70" block hours for COS18?
No, I didn’t add in any EXPAT benefits for HK. I also targeted 84 hours for both.

it’s not that hard to add up with the pay scales data tables in Cos18 and EBA 2020.
ACMS is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:10
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 547
Oasis : Your post =80=. What we have been saying about the Harbour for years. But, heard of same behavior when Eagle went. Heard the same of Court, Channel, BUA/Cally and Lakerr. Saw the same of AE. The "nasty" side surfaces in human behavior when self preservation becomes the driver. Another bad side is "smugness" when it all settles . That bit can lead to many an ugly bar-brawl. No winners in any of this. Very nasty times indeed.
Landflap is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:13
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
Sitting here in disbelief. Never in my life and career as pilot did I ever think I would come across, what I believe to be fellow aviators, arguing over who is the CHEAPEST. Just goes to show where we, yes all of us have taken this industry!!
I, for one, am amazed it took you this long to realise we have been fighting over scraps, while the plantation owners have increased their bonuses a hundred+-fold over the past decades and laughing all the way to the bank.
AT owns a mansion in Tuscany, while destroying the department she headed and also the morale of the people in it.
We’re in the wrong business and have been for years, but we accepted it without taking a stand.
We have created this mess ourselves, that I agree with.
Piet Lood is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:30
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by BubbaJ View Post
Jesus! Let it Go FFS

We are all [email protected]#$d one way or another

Thoughts to all the hard slogging KA guys that just lost everything :-(
Thankyou. Welcome to the back blocks of the prc take it easy out there
AllWobbly is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:53
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Landflap View Post
Oasis : Your post =80=. What we have been saying about the Harbour for years. But, heard of same behavior when Eagle went. Heard the same of Court, Channel, BUA/Cally and Lakerr. Saw the same of AE. The "nasty" side surfaces in human behavior when self preservation becomes the driver. Another bad side is "smugness" when it all settles . That bit can lead to many an ugly bar-brawl. No winners in any of this. Very nasty times indeed.
You have a point, nothing is more human.
Crabs in a bucket comes to mind.
Oasis is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 10:18
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 784
Extra security for her mansion ?
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 13:47
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 637
From here on in !!

Keep it real folks, it is what it is !!

YOU HAVE BEEN BENCHMARKED,
NOT against tier 1 airlines as CX purports and charges for but Air Asia X....... The FAT LADY HAS SUNG ‼️
Get your calculator, do your sums, make a plan, ACT‼️

Cut your losses, CX is not worth it.
BTW, if you think ANY if the arrogant knobs 3rd floor or higher will be switching to the “same” Cos18 you are, go straight to the asylum and check in‼️( not covered in the pathetic excuse of a medical plan)

Last edited by Flex88; 23rd Oct 2020 at 17:43.
Flex88 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 16:12
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 60
'Cut your losses, CX is not worth it.'

I think many of the expats left in CX after this week are busy running the numbers to see how viable it is to get out now. The company has been sat on this for months and yet, such is their contempt, the flight crew are given days to make life changing decisions. No extension says the DFO, sign or termination. Of course after 1 November any further severance packages will be based on our new budget CoS, rock bottom basic salaries with no repatriation allowances. Brilliant CK! Force everyone onto a COS20 and then fire them anyway on cheaper terms.
cabbages is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 16:46
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: hong kong
Posts: 3
You got to admit it was bloody good plan! The same day you fire thousands of employees, you offer substandard contracts to those who stayed. That way those who were allowed to stay will feel grateful, and will sign anything even if its to give up their kids.
Silk_flyer1980 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 16:57
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: VHHK
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by cabbages View Post
'Cut your losses, CX is not worth it.'

I think many of the expats left in CX after this week are busy running the numbers to see how viable it is to get out now. The company has been sat on this for months and yet, such is their contempt, the flight crew are given days to make life changing decisions. No extension says the DFO, sign or termination. Of course after 1 November any further severance packages will be based on our new budget CoS, rock bottom basic salaries with no repatriation allowances. Brilliant CK! Force everyone onto a COS20 and then fire them anyway on cheaper terms.
The maximum possible statutory severance package under the employment ordnance is $390,000, and that money is offset against the P-Fund https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57l_whole.htm#q9

Ask the ex-KA employees, they only received the minimum statuary severance payment (from their P-fund), all benefits immediately terminated, no medical, no repatriation flights, no repatriation of belongings.
hkgfooey is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2020, 16:57
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 62
Having "run the numbers" it's quite obvious that anyone beyond a 21 yr old single SO will find it almost impossible to make ends meet, especially if they are married with family. It is of particular concern when you realise that few if any of us will be able to fly a full roster for the next year or two at best, thereby ensuring very minimal pay amounts for at least that time period. There is also the question of very inadequate health care, which again is putting anyone with a family in a potentially very dire situation with any serious illness. That raises the question: other than building time for the less experienced pilots, what on earth is the point of staying in HK/CX when you will almost certainly be going backwards financially every month? Comments...
mngmt mole is offline  

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