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Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Cathay Pacific ‘to axe 6,000 staff and Dragon brand’ in bid to stay afloat

Old 22nd Oct 2020, 06:42
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From the SCMP , 10 ka pilots are retained by cathay, to retrain others on the narrowbody’

Who are the “ others” they are referring to?
Who arethe lucky 10?
The 3rd floor sycophants?

When will the letters go out to laid off ka pilots inviting job applicants to a newly expanded hong kong Express?

Maybe a rebrand is in the air, for HKE , costing 100s of millions ?

i laugh when I think of all the wasted re branding of Dragonair over the last few years, to Cathay Dragon, that most pax were ambivalent about.

What a stupendous waste of human resources, time , money and effort. And Not a single boardmember takes any responsibility except their meaningless platitudes .
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 08:22
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Originally Posted by ACMS
So? We are well setup to easily re-validate Pilots from anywhere with plenty of trainers and Sims available......it’s not a new event and has been done many times as per the training manual. Besides a lot of HK based Pilots are not current either...
Not as hard as you think. Sorry to disappoint but you haven’t gotten rid of all the pesky senior to you Pilots just yet...........
I hope your right, I for one would hate to see any of the based crew go. Lots of good friends, good pilots and good people on the bases. But I'm really begging to wonder. The longer they leave them all sat there not flying and no indication of when they will even start the retraining process or of what that will
be can only mean one thing....
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 09:10
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Originally Posted by LLLQNH
I ....... The longer they leave them all sat there not flying and no indication of when they will even start the retraining process or of what that will be can only mean one thing....
Base Closure?
I don’t think so, as that will cost them 6 months salary for those who don’t want to relocate to HKG.
They have to offer same salary (in HKD) AND all the benefits under CoS08, otherwise it’s constructive dismissal.

On the re-training: Yes it was done before, but not en masse. We’re talking about at least a 777 full of pilots staying in the headless hotel for a long time waiting to do SIMs and Line flying.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 09:39
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Ok. Very shortly the only Veta employees are those on a base. And then they wrap up Veta as insolvent. Or something similar. And, the entity that employed you no longer exists. À la KA, and our unfortunate colleagues there. And bang goes LIFO ( which they achieved yesterday ) and having to retrain those pesky senior guys.
And good luck with litigation. Measured in years. By which stage your various AOA’s will be bankrupt.
They’ve patently thought this through very carefully.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 10:36
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
Ok. Very shortly the only Veta employees are those on a base. And then they wrap up Veta as insolvent. Or something similar. And, the entity that employed you no longer exists. À la KA, and our unfortunate colleagues there. And bang goes LIFO ( which they achieved yesterday ) and having to retrain those pesky senior guys.
And good luck with litigation. Measured in years. By which stage your various AOA’s will be bankrupt.
They’ve patently thought this through very carefully.
They could do that, but based crew are dirt cheap, even compared with hkg based cos18.
If anything they should increase the bases if they want to save money, and they do.

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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 11:30
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They’re not cheaper on 80%\50% pay for doing sweet fanny adams.
Have you had a look at cos 18. ? Carefully ?
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 12:01
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
They’re not cheaper on 80%\50% pay for doing sweet fanny adams...
How many pilots are sitting in HK doing sweet FA and getting paid 100% of their salary? I suspect it's a lot more than the total number of based pilots. You might want to watch your own backs...
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 12:28
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
They’re not cheaper on 80%\50% pay for doing sweet fanny adams.
Have you had a look at cos 18. ? Carefully ?
Disclaimer: have not compared all Bases all ranks and a bit back of the envelope, but as I understand the numbers, if no-one is flying, London Captain base is a bit cheaper (about 10.000 pounds a year) to cx paying 80 rate of furlough, and at 85 hours flying London is a lot cheaper (by about 58000 pounds per year, the price of a second officer)
This looking at more than 4 year captain, no 13th month, no matching pension in hong kong, no profit share, london hdp.
So yes, it is cheaper now and it will be a lot cheaper again later, when flying picks up, in my humble estimation.

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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 13:11
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Interesting. You’ve not compared it with cos 18. Which is sadly now the benchmark. There is no 13m. And no efp. And pf reduced
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 13:22
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Anyway. I don’t wish harm or misfortune on any of us. Based or not. As an observation, they have orchestrated this very carefully. And if they do require more people on a base, as they’re apparently so cost effective, on what terms ? Veta cos 18 ?
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 13:24
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
Interesting. You’ve not compared it with cos 18. Which is sadly now the benchmark. There is no 13m. And no efp. And pf reduced
that’s why I said I didn’t add 13m, I didn’t even add the pf in Hong Kong, so the difference is even bigger. Efp still there in London, not Hong Kong.

Looks like you didn’t actually do the numbers.
That’s ok, I’ve got nothing better to do..
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 13:30
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Originally Posted by Oasis
that’s why I said I didn’t add 13m, I didn’t even add the pf in Hong Kong, so the difference is even bigger. Efp still there in London, not Hong Kong.

Looks like you didn’t actually do the numbers.
That’s ok, I’ve got nothing better to do..
believe me. I’ve done the numbers. Cos 18 is lcc rates for longhaul
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 15:12
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Don’t underestimate the power of the based unions. Most of them have been around for 10 years now, and in that time they have built up a significant war chest in case CX tried to close the base. They also have the backing of real labor laws which protect against over aggressive employers. Whatever tactic CX could come up with has already been tried before and precedent set through arbitration cases. Collective Agreements do expire and eventually allow for strike or lockout action, but that process can take months. It will be a long time before based go away.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 15:34
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Originally Posted by SanMig
Don’t underestimate the power of the based unions.
Thanks for that SanMig......Whenever I need cheering up with a good laugh out loud, I'll know where to look.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 16:49
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
Ok. Very shortly the only Veta employees are those on a base. And then they wrap up Veta as insolvent. Or something similar. And, the entity that employed you no longer exists. À la KA, and our unfortunate colleagues there. And bang goes LIFO ( which they achieved yesterday ) and having to retrain those pesky senior guys.
And good luck with litigation. Measured in years. By which stage your various AOA’s will be bankrupt.
They’ve patently thought this through very carefully.
I believe this is correct! And I was reading some of the various base COS and they refer to return to hkg and what would happen if VETA ceased to exist, transfer and employment by CPA. So I agree it would seem that it wouldn't be that easy, I still think that the bases will be a thing of the past and all the guys and girls will be offered the chance to leave/retire or come to hkg and join us all on COS 18, yay...

Last edited by LLLQNH; 22nd Oct 2020 at 18:32.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 17:54
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Bases are the next target. As everyone can appreciate, hundreds of pilots basically stood down, and still on the previous contracts is not a sustainable situation. Expect an announcement in the next weeks pertaining to the new strategy for bases. Expect closures and at the very least COS 18 terms.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 17:57
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Angry How many ?

Wikipedia says KA had 3375 employees.. So if we believe SCMP plus others, there's 2625 more to go 🥺 Next...
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 20:22
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Originally Posted by cabbages
Thanks for that SanMig......Whenever I need cheering up with a good laugh out loud, I'll know where to look.
No kidding huh? Talk about living in fantasy land. Canada, or wherever, isn’t getting involved in CX union disputes...ever.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 23:43
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I wonder how many 777 captains will take up the offer to come to HK on COS21 to fly the 321 Neo into China when bases are closed.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 23:59
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"mngmt mole" You're a fool & the very worst kind of person. Why would you go out of your way to stress out more of your colleagues and families at a time like this. The company stated in writing this week that bases will not be affected at this time & a basing review is currently not being conducted. Based Pilots are still the cheapest in the company. I would be far more concerned about the removal of seniority in Hong Kong. Then they can pick & choose, selecting vocal troublemaking idiots and people who spread stupid rumours first.
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