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HK Government just doesn't get it

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

HK Government just doesn't get it

Old 12th Nov 2019, 18:54
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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HK Government just doesn't get it

Watching HK basically collapse into "failed state" status. You can condemn the antics of the protestors all you want (and certainly firebombing MTR cars and setting people on fire isn't going to help their cause!), but the REAL problem is a government (small 'g') that is wholly incapable of representing the severe anxieties and fears of over a million + under 25 year olds who have conclusively decided that they don't want to be subsumed by a totalitarian nightmare state such as China, and resent (deeply) the fact that all the wealth in HK has been effectively stolen by a small number of families and their political allies. If that isn't addressed, then HK will continue to burn, and it WILL get worse. What have the young got to lose at this point? It's time for CL to go, and for Beijing to take a step back from the precipice. HK will ALWAYS be a part of China that expects much more than the mainland, and it will now obviously risk dying to make that point. Either the govt. and Beijing come to recognise that fact, or they will be subsumed in a conflagration that will be of historic proportions.

nb: CX is certainly doomed in the current scenario, and any necessary change will arrive too late to save the airline or its employees.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 20:36
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Not sure being a wellpaid, privelaged expat pilot really helps, and as a none voter you should keep your sneb out.

Interesting that the demonstrators chased a pilot up the road, thinking he was a police man. The guy wont be wearing his stripes in central any time soon lol.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 05:49
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Join Date: Dec 2018
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Just an observation that being a Permanent Resident of HK (as I assume nearly all long-term CX crew are) means that you are entitled to vote (and to stand in District elections).
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 08:03
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Well, firstly it's "non-voter". Secondly, the irony in that statement is laughable. That is actually the crux of the problem, NOBODY really has a vote that counts in HK. It's stitched up by the special interests who are actually allowed to "elect" their leader, already handpicked by Beijing. Thirdly, i've paid more tax in HK than most people earn in a lifetime, so yes, I do have a right to stick my sneb in. Fourthly, I am recently retired, don't work for CX, don't live in HK anymore so I can say what I damn well like. Further, if you read my comments carefully, I wasn't supporting the protestors (and certainly not the extreme bunch of anarchists that are trashing HK), I was saying that the Govt isn't listening or responding to the needs and concerns of its citizens. If they don't soon start, the entire place will crumble. If i'm wrong, then point out where.

ps. I am worried for all my friends and colleagues who are still dependent on the airline, and things need to change quickly if there is to be a future for any tourism related business in HK.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 13:21
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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I donít know about everyone else here, but Iím starting to think bringing the pla in is the only way forward.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 14:38
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
I donít know about everyone else here, but Iím starting to think bringing the pla in is the only way forward.
I got msg from senior gov staff, you are correct, PLA is coming down now and tons of boss moving their business out.
mk18mod1 is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2019, 15:44
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Join Date: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
I don’t know about everyone else here, but I’m starting to think bringing the pla in is the only way forward.
Er, I think that would be backward. What can the PLA do that the HKP can't? The police have plenty of lethal firepower if they choose to use it.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 17:21
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Age: 29
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Why would anyone care how much tax a privileged expat pays? Oh yes, its to say Im a big fat A scale dude, I know more than you, and my pay check makes me better. Despite my girth and Philippine wife .

Profit, I know a few ex CX KA pilots who left of their own accord, found another airline or simply retired as they had had enough. And they did something about it.

You know what, not one has any resentment of their previous life . Its not that they regret the life they had in HK, just once you go, you go. They chose to work , earn and then leave. Before the bitterness took over their lives.
They donít linger on the fragrant harbour , with laced
rantings that few relate to.

Now, back to the subject, if thats possible ...
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 05:31
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Krone. You really sound like someone who needs a bit of a rest. I think APs point regarding tax is that it demonstrates his right to have an opinion on the present and future HK. If he was here for 25 years then I certainly think he's correct in that assumption. As to stating he's paid a lot of tax, that just reinforces his point on being entitled to a say. As for girth and Filipino wife, I would say you are dangerously close to a rather racist comment with that, unless you meant statement as a compliment? I'm sure you did . As for the bitterness you mention, it certainly comes across in almost every word you write. Take my advice, have a break.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 06:50
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Mngmt mole. Agreed
farefield is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 12:40
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I've been retired almost a year now. Looking at the current state of HK, I couldn't have timed things better. It's sad to see what is happening, and unfortunately I don't see it getting better. In fact, I predict it will get much much worse. As to the OP's post, I concur that the Govt is seemingly blind to the needs and expectations of millions of HK citizens. It's a shame that the impasse has seemingly pushed a small minority towards violence and anarchy, which will largely undermine their legitimate complaints. I don't see Beijing waiting too much longer to react. Hopefully all my colleagues that are still in HK will survive and thrive. Unfortunately I think that may be wishful thinking.... Good luck to all.

ps. AP, I agree with one thing Krone has said; give up worrying so much about it. Once we're gone we are gone. I find I rarely think about CX anymore, but the news lately has forced it back into my view. As you are probably now finding, there is MUCH more to life than CX or HK.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 21:03
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Hello Traff ,

nice to see you back online , we have missed your sage commentary
oriental flyer is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 21:50
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: HK
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Traf... somehow the voice of reason after all these years.. Need Cruncho in with a comment on the numbers.

We've shared the same life... I went corporate.. you left.. my jet has recently posted outside Hong Kong.. and I have too.

I literally consider my mates and past colleagues nightly when they say whatsapp back that it's fine for them... and I go to the beach.

I'm doing fighting them on whats happening. Anyone left thinks there is a solution that simply isn't there.

Lighter Gas each other will be the acid attacks of 15 years ago.

Brothers.. Gentlemen.. (sisters)... there is life outside CX. Take it.
FreemaninHK is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 22:21
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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A few reflections;

- the experience throughout my career was one of mostly low-level frustration, mixed with uncertainty and fear. It's hard working a career in a place of no real legal foundation or protection.
- lack of control of the roster (and by association, your life) is in hindsight the greatest travesty of my career
- unaccountable management, who waste millions but who daily admonish others to save pennies, with threat to career for non-compliance
- the missed opportunities elsewhere (most of my colleagues, retired or still working other than at CX seem happier with their lot)
- a day back home is worth 3 in HK
- how most of what was considered 'important' by CX is actually fairly mundane, pointless and ultimately worthless. Nothing that seemed important to me then seems of any importance now
- it is not worth persisting with something that you implicitly sense is a mistake. I thought back in the mid-late 90's that I should leave. I wish I had listened to my inner voice
- it is not worth working for an airline that you are neither proud of, nor respect or in fact, does not value you in return
- the only sensible reason to have persisted with a CX career was because of the money. Now, that is certainly not a reason to stay at CX, so almost any other option would prove better, based on all the above.
- you only have one life. Don't live it in regret, fear or loathing. Although I made the best of what CX had to offer, I can say that if I could do it all over again, I would have chosen a different option.

Obviously, the above comments are my own thoughts, and each one of you need to reflect deeply on where you are at, where CX is going, where HK is likely going and predict your future based on that. I know what my conclusion would be. Regardless, I do miss flying with a great bunch of guys/girls, and I wish everyone of you well. Just don't try and flog a dead horse for too long... Traf.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 22:23
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Join Date: Jul 2017
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So does this means that they're gonna hire a lot of expats with more lucrative benefits after things cool down to attract the lost pilots ?
hitansh is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2019, 22:23
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Shahjahanpur
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I remember applied in July for second officer and they still haven't called anyone due to protests and slowdown.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 22:42
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"more lucrative benefits...?? ". You aren't from around here are you Hitansh?
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2019, 00:51
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 551
Deciding which airline to join was a bit like picking mutual funds, very few of them were consistent good performers long term, and last years best often became this years worst. Those who joined in the 1980s on the A scale had the best years of Cathay, they are nearly all retired now and living very nicely back in their home countries or some exotic location they took a fancy to during their travels.

A sea change is taking place and the long term outlook isn't good. China doesn't really need Hong Kong to continue in its present form, the RMB is increasingly becoming a world currency and this can be managed from Beijing, Chinese transport links and ports have greatly improved and little has to transit through Hong Kong. The master plan of world domination through the belt and road initiative is well in place, taking over the South China Sea and recolonising Africa is moving along nicely. Ultimately Hong Kong will simply become just another large Chinese city, which will be out of favour with the government due to recent events.

President Xi Jinping has already vowed to "smash separatists to pieces", if the protesters overplay their hand they could push the central government into a crack down and mass internment.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/tibe...state-complex/
krismiler is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2019, 11:10
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Well, firstly it's "non-voter". Secondly, the irony in that statement is laughable. That is actually the crux of the problem, NOBODY really has a vote that counts in HK. It's stitched up by the special interests who are actually allowed to "elect" their leader, already handpicked by Beijing. Thirdly, i've paid more tax in HK than most people earn in a lifetime, so yes, I do have a right to stick my sneb in. Fourthly, I am recently retired, don't work for CX, don't live in HK anymore so I can say what I damn well like. Further, if you read my comments carefully, I wasn't supporting the protestors (and certainly not the extreme bunch of anarchists that are trashing HK), I was saying that the Govt isn't listening or responding to the needs and concerns of its citizens. If they don't soon start, the entire place will crumble. If i'm wrong, then point out where.

ps. I am worried for all my friends and colleagues who are still dependent on the airline, and things need to change quickly if there is to be a future for any tourism related business in HK.
sorry to say , guess you are right , we are dancing on air and this air is getting thinner by the minute
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 12:21
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
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Welcome back Traf and well said. I think the cardinal sin one can make in life is in misplacing priorities and as such giving more time to something than it deserves. You only get one life with a finite amount of time which is your most precious resource so use it wisely.

It personally pains me a bit that there are so many who stubbornly refuse to see and accept the situation as it is and rather choose to lose themselves in the weeds ó head in sand ó and by so doing miss much better opportunities of all kinds in life. HK ainít what it was, the place ainít what it was, and it a person doesnít see the writing on the wall I feel sorry for them. If one can distance themselves ó using this as a hobby rather than a big chunk of time and life ó then it might work. Using the job more as a vehicle to do things a person might enjoyó like going places and seeing good friends. But I canít imagine the regret a person might face if he or she were to sacrifice important time with loved ones and doing really cool things to devote to something that ainít gonna love you back.
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