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This does not bode well...

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

This does not bode well...

Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:02
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 823
Didn’t literally no one care?

Given the political situation in HKG at the moment may I suggest that there are probably more pressing matters to discuss than a passing comment from a fellow pilot about how an airline and one applicant was perceived 3 decades ago.

Many, many people from around the world will no doubt be reading this for serious updates on a situation with truly global ramifications. ‘You smell, ‘cause you do!’ is not going to matter much if martial law is declared - if indeed it could be heard over the clatter of tank tracks down Hennessy Rd - those things make a racket on bitumen and concrete!

Seriously, I mean no offence to anyone here at all, but I trust information from intelligent people (generally ) here far more than I do the SCMP and second hand Western journalist reports.

The risks for Cathay, Hong Kong, Taiwan and indeed the world are obvious. And whether anyone got into CX during its VERY golden years or not, I’m certain that however it was expressed a great deal of sympathy exists for all involved.

Good luck, best wishes and be aware anyone involved has great support from many who will be reading and not commenting from all around the four corners of the circular globe.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 450
I agree but public and named defamation is also serious. Hope the present situation resolved itself. Best wishes
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 01:22
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Nyc
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Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
If by "socialist" you mean having some sort of welfare state then yes I guess so. But that is the American definition of socialist. Conservatives in most developed countries regard a welfare state as a mark of a civilised society. At a quick look, the top marginal tax rate in Australia appears to be 47%. That's far from extreme - I grew up in the UK when the top marginal tax rate was 85%.
Interesting that you include American definition of socialism and 47% tax rate in the same paragraph.

I'm unclear if this supports your opinion, but where I live in New York the highest marginal income tax rate is about 49%.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 12:55
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the twilight zone
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47% marginal tax rate is pretty normal in Europe.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 13:00
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by The Range View Post
47% marginal tax rate is pretty normal in Europe.
... and a giant ripoff considering what you get in services for that and the high national debt loads. Same in NY, a horribly awful scam paying that kind of tax.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 13:14
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the twilight zone
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post

... and a giant ripoff considering what you get in services for that and the high national debt loads. Same in NY, a horribly awful scam paying that kind of tax.
I totally agree with you!
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 11:47
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 460
The 47% marginal rate is just the start, after that you’re looking at VAT/sales taxes of 15-20%, additional taxes when you buy a car and again when you fuel it up. Duties on alcohol and tobacco, stamp duty when you buy a property and capital gains tax when you sell it.

If you’re poor and live off the system, or earning CEO money and raking it in you’re fine. Those in the middle feel it worse.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 13:44
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
The 47% marginal rate is just the start, after that you’re looking at VAT/sales taxes of 15-20%, additional taxes when you buy a car and again when you fuel it up. Duties on alcohol and tobacco, stamp duty when you buy a property and capital gains tax when you sell it.

If you’re poor and live off the system, or earning CEO money and raking it in you’re fine. Those in the middle feel it worse.
Hence the problem. Socialism (up to the point of communism) is, in part, reflected by taxation. The oppression described above is not indicative of a system valuing liberty or free markets. Quite the opposite!!!
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 13:48
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
We're way way off-topic here, but I'm curious what percentage of your income you pay for healthcare costs in your view of the world? All the data I have seen says that, on average, the cost is far, far higher in a users/insurer-pays system like that in the US than in a state-funded system as in most of Europe and Canada. And the US system also seems to have significantly worse outcomes overall.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 14:02
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nippi
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Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
We're way way off-topic here, but I'm curious what percentage of your income you pay for healthcare costs in your view of the world? All the data I have seen says that, on average, the cost is far, far higher in a users/insurer-pays system like that in the US than in a state-funded system as in most of Europe and Canada. And the US system also seems to have significantly worse outcomes overall.
Unlike many of the above countries. In the US you can get that surgery you need in a week or so. You pay for service.
Stay healthy and your costs will be low. Why do you feel that your fellow citizens should pay for your health care in the form of higher taxes?? No one seems to want to take care of themselves of their families. A socialist style health care system in the US would be a disaster for everyone except the lefties who forced upon us. They would still receive very nice care.

Last edited by DropKnee; 16th Aug 2019 at 19:10.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 14:05
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
But overall, you pay far more for your healthcare than people in, say, the UK, or Canada, or Scandinavia, and with poorer outcomes. From a user point of view the difference between a tax paid to the government and a premium paid to an insurance company is a matter of semantics. You pay more money for inferior results.

But really, this isn't a debate for here. Can we just agree to differ and return to discussing the aviation business in HK?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 18:27
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Paul, you pay a much higher amount indirectly through exorbitant taxes. If you were to sit down and compare what an average middle class person pays in both taxes and health care in the USA, vs taxes and health care in the UK for instance, I can assure you of two things: 1) The US person pays less overall, and 2) the quality of health care is much higher in the US. Where do the worlds wealthy usually travel to for health care when they are really sick?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 23:50
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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It’s the same place where people have to declare bankruptcy when they get cancer because their crappy insurance won’t cover it (enough).
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 23:55
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Where do the worlds wealthy usually travel to for health care when they are really sick?
Switzerland.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 00:52
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by cvg2iln View Post
!989. I was right seat DC8 and successfully interviewed with CX. The company at that time was an ex- crab mess and had a certain stench about it. People of interest (names may not be exact due to fading memory): Malcolm Wagstaff in his pseudo wizard role - should be a member of the sexual predator #Metoo tribe - the planet is enriched should he now be singing with the great majority. My wife still laughs at the memory of this vile little man. There was also a somewhat flaccid ex crab named Baxter on the interview board - and a doctor Forsyth(?) who seemed to have a spine of plasticine being willing to dance to any tune the company called. All ex crabs of course - CX at that time was a magnet/ dumpster for a certain type.

Two months after turning CX's offer down I was DC8 left seat and four years later became a TRI. I do retain a few treasured interview memories and still smile at the absolute inadequacy of the offer from 30 yrs ago.
Cx and Hong Kong definitely dodged a bullet here, good outcome for all and in line with the "no dickheads" policy.
deja vu is online now  
Old 17th Aug 2019, 08:17
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
2) the quality of health care is much higher in the US.
Er, no, not even close. Read and learn:
https://www.newsweek.com/united-stat...d-worst-637114
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...es/#item-start
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633404/

But again, can we please get back to discussing the HK Aviation business?
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 22:57
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
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Paul, give it up. AP is correct in his assessment. Quoting liberal news sources that are ideologically bent on bringing down any conservative program or policy is not proving anything. I could offer similar conservative news articles arguing the exact opposite. I wouldn't look to the Guardian in the UK for support of Conservative party policy either. If you really get sick, you go to the States. Technology and the best Doctors. Yes, Switzerland it pretty good as well. Just don't try and argue that health care is "bad" in the US. It's not. You are simply swallowing the usual Democratic party crap that they use to justify Obamacare. As you said, let's get back to aviation because we could go on all day long like this.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 00:44
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Islas Baleares
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Paul, you pay a much higher amount indirectly through exorbitant taxes. If you were to sit down and compare what an average middle class person pays in both taxes and health care in the USA, vs taxes and health care in the UK for instance, I can assure you of two things: 1) The US person pays less overall, and 2) the quality of health care is much higher in the US. Where do the worlds wealthy usually travel to for health care when they are really sick?
That would be true if the average middle class person in the US had access to the Mayo Clinic. Sadly that's not the case.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 04:15
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 549
CX Leadership

Two things:

1. CX now being led by 2 Mainland Chinese ???
2. Merlin Swire must be leading from behind...

THIS is how #China really works.. Classic.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 05:06
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 992
That would be true if the average middle class person in the US had access to the Mayo Clinic. Sadly that's not the case.
Fair enough, but you have to admit there is no other country with a Mayo Clinic that gives access to it for the poor.

That’s the problem with socialized, government-provided medicine; it provides a barely ok system that costs way more than a private option.

So I will prefer a system that allows the best healthcare options to exists for those that have the means, over one that provides universal crappy healthcare for all.

Government is bad at everything it does, when will people learn that? The free market always does better. Name one government run system that is better than the free market option. Government’s only purpose is to perpetuate its own existence.
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