Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

This does not bode well...

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

This does not bode well...

Old 13th Aug 2019, 09:43
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 280
Slowjet : couple of "ouches" - of course I don't consider myself a CX failure, rather, wrong colour and being born in India, 1978 DFO decided that I must be Indian. I had a lot of fun with that for decades. Second "ouch" was that my departure from GF was not "eased". More like a severe kick in the ollies. That being clarified, events in HK remind me of Iran, HK & the ME. Gypsey pilots go where the work is or where the grass looks greener. Most of us are aware of the pitfalls and have contingency planning. My heartfelt fear is for those in these areas who carry no contingency or reserve fuel. Big wake-up call coming.
Gordomac is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 10:59
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Slasher1 View Post
The other thing you gotta keep in mind is that while commies are evil, brutal, and power hungry they are not necessarily stupid. Bejing could well be exploiting these events as a sort of forced hostile takeover of the airline. Or what is left of it when the brew ha ha settles down.
‘commies’? They are the furtherest thing from communists. They are a dictatorship. Proper communists are the Australian government
Brown Nose is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 12:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Brown Nose View Post
Proper communists are the Australian government
Am I missing something here, or is that the most bizarre statement made on this forum for a very long time?

Last edited by Paul852; 13th Aug 2019 at 13:55.
Paul852 is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 14:05
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,816
Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
Am I missing something here, or is that the most bizarre statement made on this forum for a very long time?
Actually, you are missing something (several somethings I suspect). Communism is an economic system, look it up. The Chinese are definitely NOT communists, but crony capitalists with all the state-owned enterprises and associated corruption. Many, many Chinese have become extremely rich under this system. This would not be possible under proper communism. So, yes, Australia is economically more communist than China despite also being politically democratic. China is politically a dictatorship, under the rouse/guise of old fashioned revolutionary communism. It’s quite a scam they (Xi and his party) are pulling on over a billion Chinese citizens.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 14:08
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
You misunderstood my point. I fully agree that the Chinese system is not communist. What I found bizarre was the claim that the Australian government is!

And please try not to be so patronising. Thanks!
Paul852 is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 14:32
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,816
Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
You misunderstood my point. I fully agree that the Chinese system is not communist. What I found bizarre was the claim that the Australian government is!

And please try not to be so patronising. Thanks!
While not communists, the Ozzies are certainly on the socialist spectrum with extreme taxation, regulation, and high benefit levels.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 15:38
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by fire wall View Post


Highly unlikely unless there is something else motivating the sale other than price.
Swire and Air China currently hold 74.9 % of the shares. Qatar 9.64% and some other institutional shareholder 3 odd % (from memory). That leaves 12 % that are “liquid”.
I think you are wrong as only a pilot would buy high and sell low !
You have to bear in mind that CX is only a small portion of the Swire empire. A useful entity perhaps to move things and capital — perhaps potentially even launder stuff that needs laundering — but a tiny bit of a much larger picture.

It’s that larger picture that counts. CX being one of several pawns.

I have no doubt that if that pawn were to become problematic for other rooks or bishops it’d be tossed aside pretty quickly.

But it’s tough to figure out how this whole thing goes. Could be a flash in the pan; could be an excuse for a radical intervention and change.
Slasher1 is online now  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 15:52
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post

While not communists, the Ozzies are certainly on the socialist spectrum with extreme taxation, regulation, and high benefit levels.
If by "socialist" you mean having some sort of welfare state then yes I guess so. But that is the American definition of socialist. Conservatives in most developed countries regard a welfare state as a mark of a civilised society. At a quick look, the top marginal tax rate in Australia appears to be 47%. That's far from extreme - I grew up in the UK when the top marginal tax rate was 85%.
Paul852 is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 16:16
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,816
Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
If by "socialist" you mean having some sort of welfare state then yes I guess so. But that is the American definition of socialist. Conservatives in most developed countries regard a welfare state as a mark of a civilised society. At a quick look, the top marginal tax rate in Australia appears to be 47%. That's far from extreme - I grew up in the UK when the top marginal tax rate was 85%.
Not going to argue the pros and cons of socialism or even a welfare state. History is an excellent judge of those. It is important, however, to assess whether a welfare state is a safety net for those who cannot or rather a handout to able-bodied adults to buy votes.

As for tax rates, I regard anything much beyond those assessed in HK to be excessive, which probably tells you all you need to know about my views on the welfare state and big government. I accept that there are valid opposing views. I simply don’t agree based on my knowledge of history and current events. I acknowledge that utilitarianism isn’t always fair, but neither is rights fundamentalism.

PS - An 85% tax rate destroys almost all incentives to make more money. Would you work EFP if it were going to be taxed at 85%? I certainly wouldn’t.

Last edited by cxorcist; 13th Aug 2019 at 22:25.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2019, 21:36
  #50 (permalink)  
DIRECTOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 604
Did not know that Gordomac was a CX failure. Suppose I was too having being turned down by ASL Cargo as DEC on 747-200.Only reason I was interested was job was based in UK and paid in £Stg.

Met a CX crew whilst night stopping in Rama Gardens Hotel Bangkok where we also stayed and told them I had been interviewed by a ginger haired Kiwi training Captain and they all fell about laughing and said in one voice the FGI
thegypsy is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 00:31
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
thegypsy. you were willing to join ASL, and help begin the destruction of the great career that was CX. It's your type that is the corrosive acid in our profession. Doesn't matter now, CX is finished anyway.

(btw, being turned down by ASL....!! that is like being turned down for burger flipper at McDonalds)
Air Profit is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 06:50
  #52 (permalink)  
DIRECTOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 604
Air Profit

It just shows how little you know about flipping burgers all day. It sounds like you may have to get your application into McDonalds sooner rather than later. Best of Luck with it.
thegypsy is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:42
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 362
Gordo, apologies on both counts. Gypsy, you are wrong to consider yourself a "failure" too, although I get the most probable jest. Probably far too bright and worldly for ASL anyway.I do side with the "gypsy pilot" term. Many of us have remained loyal to our Regulatory Authority who licenced us to exercise licence privilage for "hire and reward". It was of mere commercial interest what was painted on the side of a plane. We went, were hired, were rewarded and part of it was to cover our backs . My sorrow is in seeing the other type of professional who put all eggs in one corporate basket and were immensely proud of what was painted on the side of an aeroplane . These types will be feeling tremendous loss at situations similar to the one we now see unfold in HK. Corporate loyalty has absolutely no place in hard commercial aviation. History showing us that lesson eh ?
slowjet is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:48
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Location Location
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
The West lulled itself to sleep, singing the lullaby that Chinese economic growth would result in a liberalised China.
With Winnie set for life the West belatedly wakes to the reality of a tyrannical dictatorship. Sleep replaced by the nightmare that Chinese expansionism is real, its intent clear.
For those of us observing HK it is very clear that this sets the tone for Chinese intent. Either we resist or we succumb, but the actions of those souls in HK ought remind us that the stakes are high.

The retreat of globalsation ought give pilots/flight attendants cause for concern. Flying into regions that the company (safe away from security forces) still deem "good for business" may not be good for one's personal rights, privacy and property.
Concur. China overreached. Now they're stuck in a mess they created through sheer arrogance and pigheadedness. Do nothing, risk protest contagion across China. Interfere, and they lose their #1 money laundering hub. If they interfere with troops rolling into the city, the scam most of us believe One Country, Two Systems has become anyhow collapses utterly, and there's nothing left in Hong Kong but the sky high rents. Also, it's becoming obvious this generation of Hong Kong kids are made of The Real Stuff... balls of titanium standing up to the largest totalitarian juggernaut since Stalin and Adolf. But commies on the ground in uniform will render all of Kowloon into one long smoldering ghetto for years to come. Businesses will walk. Put a fork in it.
Shutterbug is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:21
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 460
Whilst not scoring too highly in the human rights department, the Chinese communists have done a pretty good job of developing China since the 1980s. Living standards have skyrocketed and parts of the country are approaching first world status. Compared to other countries such as Venezuela or Zimbabwe which can't even keep the lights on China doesn't seem too bad.

Rising incomes and opening up to the world has led to the population questioning the system which bought them prosperity. Will China become like Hong Kong and Taiwan or will it crush dissent and keep an iron grip as it becomes increasingly wealthy and powerful.
krismiler is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:42
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hostage to geographical fortune.
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by slowjet View Post
History serves up the best lessons. Mate of mine was ready to join Iranair in 1978. His Dad tried to put him off and himself, had lived and worked i....
Look back at history. The present is about to change very rapidly.
!989. I was right seat DC8 and successfully interviewed with CX. The company at that time was an ex- crab mess and had a certain stench about it. People of interest (names may not be exact due to fading memory): Malcolm Wagstaff in his pseudo wizard role - should be a member of the sexual predator #Metoo tribe - the planet is enriched should he now be singing with the great majority. My wife still laughs at the memory of this vile little man. There was also a somewhat flaccid ex crab named Baxter on the interview board - and a doctor Forsyth(?) who seemed to have a spine of plasticine being willing to dance to any tune the company called. All ex crabs of course - CX at that time was a magnet/ dumpster for a certain type.

Two months after turning CX's offer down I was DC8 left seat and four years later became a TRI. I do retain a few treasured interview memories and still smile at the absolute inadequacy of the offer from 30 yrs ago.
cvg2iln is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:20
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: hong kong
Posts: 289
HK’s Absent Government gets Cathay support as Cathay sacks 2 pilots

Cathay Pacific and sister carrier Cathay Dragon, reportedly under pressure from Beijing, have publicly supported the Hong Kong government’s handling of the escalating protest movement. On Wednesday, the company reiterated its “firm support” for the city’s embattled government.SCMP
2 pilots sacked presumably to deter other pilots from in any way supporting the protesters.
Cathay may not think so but a fundamental principle of the rule of law in HK is that a person is innocent of any criminal offence until convicted after a proper judicial trial with a right to legal representation and proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt
Suspicion is not enough nor can guilt be inferred by association.
I have no idea what the second officer on the Manchester flight actually did to warrant dismissal but that firing and the firing of the other pilot tells us ( again) that Cathay will not stand by or support it employees when pressured by the HK or Chinese authorities or by its stakeholders.
Lets just go the whole way, remove the Cathay logo and rebrand Cathay & Cathay Dragon as China’s minor second tier airline

mr Q is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:59
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by mr Q View Post
I have no idea what the second officer on the Manchester flight actually did to warrant dismissal
HongKongFreePress reports that s/he posted a photo to LIHKG (a Reddit-like local forum) of an internal company message on a screen in the cockpit.

Paul852 is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:01
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 48
cvg2ilin, I have no idea what point you are trying to make... but... you interviewed at CX 30 years ago, yet you still seem very bitter about something... are you sure the following

Originally Posted by cvg2iln View Post
Two months after turning CX's offer down
shouldn't read: "two months after CX turned me down..."?

Most of all though I love that you chose to include the following in your diatribe:

Originally Posted by cvg2iln View Post
and four years later became a TRI
Literally no one cares.

Last edited by Roy De Kantzow; 14th Aug 2019 at 22:00.
Roy De Kantzow is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:33
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 450
I agree Roy. An utterly offensive post naming well known figures of that era and using disgusting language to defame them. I was working for CX in 89 and it offered the best terms on the planet at the time. So cgwhatever was obviously turned down as to disparage the deal of that time makes no sense. That was eons before B scale, 49ers etc. Nobody does care about whether the poster was a TRI and one wonders what the justification of stating that is. It is a real downfall of anonymous Internet forums when people are allowed to say such things when they never had the guts to say it to anyone’s face. In summary very bizarre to be so bitter about CX, yet apparently gone through the interview process successfully. Obviously failed to get in. By the way where are the moderators to allow such public and disgraceful naming of long retired CX employees?

Last edited by olster; 14th Aug 2019 at 21:46.
olster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.