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CMP and JCR

Old 17th May 2019, 00:50
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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CMP and JCR

Last night's CMP update if you read it right says there will be no improvement to rosters by 4th QTR 2020 as planned. This is due to the "many" already identified delays to JCR coming online.....

So much for CMP being the panacea for everyone's ills. I was sceptical from the start but so many crews thought it was going to be great.... Just look at the ASRF report exponential increase let alone the resignations.

Move beyond!

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Old 17th May 2019, 04:29
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: cassiopea
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Recently had a chat with an LCC NA pilot.

We started to compare rosters and benefits.

I was boasting about the “famous” 6 weeks leave”

and showed him my May roster. He proceeded to

show me his May roster and lo and behold

he had almost as many days off as I have with the

only difference that I had “2 weeks leave”.

My puffed up chest quickly deflated.

This is a Low cost carrier with better roster solutions.

Easy swaps, no hassle, accommodating crew schedulers.

I could tell they value their pilots

Cathay is an illusion. It’s stuck at the stone age in all aspects.

They love to talk but no action is ever made.

Perhaps it is time to move beyond.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:15
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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I was boasting about the “famous” 6 weeks leave”
Seriously??

I am taking 3 weeks leave to go skiing, and my (nurse) wife has taken 4 (yes, four) days leave to get the same amount of time off. Admittedly there might be a Christmas in there, and she had to "request" a particular shift before and after, but there it is. Yet another example of how we allow our masters to shaft us big time.

Pre COSAP 94 (8 weeks leave) might have been worth boasting about.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:25
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Originally Posted by poydras View Post
Recently had a chat with an LCC NA pilot.

he had almost as many days off as I have with the

only difference that I had “2 weeks leave”.

This is a Low cost carrier with better roster solutions.

Easy swaps, no hassle, accommodating crew schedulers.

I could tell they value their pilots
These things are NOT because they “value” their pilots. It’s because they “value” (via enforceable law) their detailed contract that was achieved through sacrifice and unity of the pilot group.

Make no mistake, it’s that way because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.


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Old 17th May 2019, 06:43
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Originally Posted by CX ex View Post


These things are NOT because they “value” their pilots. It’s because they “value” (via enforceable law) their detailed contract that was achieved through sacrifice and unity of the pilot group.

Make no mistake, it’s that way because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to.


Agree totally. My reference was also about the way FLIKA system ( swap, requests, trip drop, open time) was easily agreed by JB pilot group and their management once of course demonstrating its validity.
We don’t have a unified group unfortunately agree.
It’s a shame.
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Old 17th May 2019, 14:05
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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FWIW the rosters I’ve seen since CMP being initiated have been the worst ones since I’ve been here. This is not really the fault of CMP but of the prevailing philosophy of rostering. The roster is built — potentially with some decent efficiency and fatigue weighting modules — and then reserve is added in later (after the CMP process) to fill in the gaps of what would have been time off. Really a scam. And rosters are changed on a whim later (again with no regard to what CMP might have figured)— negating any benefit of the program. With the goal of putting someone on a string for as much as possible.

Until the rosters become unchangable without agreement of the rosteree, and reserve becomes an integral part of the process (being paid and having a penalty factor) you will see things go downhill. I really haven’t ever seen anything like this in a long haul operation.

As usual, the TUs will remain impotent to have any measurable effect. To be fair this isn’t completely their fault; too many scabs and pussies amongst us to force a win-win.
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Old 17th May 2019, 18:19
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For the first time in about 20 years the company were getting a bit desperate last month. Then a bunch of guys volunteered to be forced into training. The rosters won't be getting better any day soon now, they'll just do what they want with the pilots that are left. Many more are leaving of course but rather than persuade them to stay, the company will sweat the assets still here, which will continue until the next recession when the turnover reduces and the company can consolidate. The opportunity for change has just been squandered, as ever, by a minority of selfish pilots.
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Old 17th May 2019, 19:53
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Well it’s time to name and shame ,personally I prefer the idea of a quick trip behind the barn to explain to these thick witted dolts the stupidity of their choices
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Old 17th May 2019, 23:36
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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JCR - Really?
I'm from the government and I'm here to help you...
Your cheques in the mail...

CX already got what it wanted in this deal, that's the end of it. Period.
You will get no more, zip, nada, ZERO.

Save your energy for packing up the 700 sq/ft apartment and moving home to a new decent employer.
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Old 18th May 2019, 03:44
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Loop, I don't think 6 or 8 Captains (out of 3000+ pilots) going into training has put paid to the company's desperation.

When was the last guidance or a reminder on CC? What are our aims, again? And before Dan says there isn't any need for a reminder, just do it, all troops need to have a clear and precise goal - and we don't have one!

They won't offer improvements because of our CC, they will just continue to find a work-around, as they have done forever.

We need to recapture the CC spirit with a clear, concise and coordinated campaign, not a boring re-hash of the same shit I have been doing for 20 years - IT'S NOT WORKING. "But it's having an effect" I hear you say - no, it's not: Swires moved up God knows how many places on the Rich List, our Directors continue to get bonuses, and our aircraft continue to get parked. NO-ONE CARES! Think we are "doing CC" by turning up to the dispatch desk at the right time, having spent 25 minutes looking at the iPad in the comfy lounge? Correct CC would see the cockpit crew in seperate busses every time.

Let's not keep doing the same thing over and over again thinking that we are bringing the company to it's knees. Do it smarter, not longer. If the membership could see how the GC is conducting it's business right now, they would run a mile. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot.

"Oh, but we can't just give up, they'll never offer us a negotiated RPs then!" Giving up, and reorganising into a new CC campaign are not the same thing. And besides, once Global RPs are negotiated, what then? Find another reason to stay in CC?

Fix the GC, fix the industrial sub-committee, fix the AOA. Only then can we start to think about what we are trying to achieve.
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Old 18th May 2019, 14:40
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OK4WIRE,

I’m sorry mate it’s worse than 6 or 8 captains going into training -

It’s at least 12 in June alone: DH; PR; NC; BdlH; SF; PB; RS; DE; TG; DM; MG; KL.

You boys know who you are.
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Old 18th May 2019, 15:15
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Originally Posted by DessertRat View Post
OK4WIRE,

I’m sorry mate it’s worse than 6 or 8 captains going into training -

It’s at least 12 in June alone: DH; PR; NC; BdlH; SF; PB; RS; DE; TG; DM; MG; KL.

You boys know who you are.
So there you have it.

There's pilots who would like to go into training but have refused the "forced" training position on principle and integrity.

Then there's pilots who would like to go into training but play the "forced" line in their colleagues in order to further their own selfish gains.

So there you have it, if you do the right thing and choose the hard morally correct path that is bound by principles and integrity you end up hurting your career and your own goals. While those that choose the easy path of self servitude, further their careers and goals.

It sends a clear message. Screw your course mates, your son's and daughter's future for your fast track gains. Who was it from Swire that said nobody ever got far in business by sticking to their principles.

I know what I would rather be.
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Old 18th May 2019, 23:49
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So it's even worse than I thought: our well-thought strategy is now going to fail because 12 new trainers are going to join the existing 210 trainers, out of a pilot group of 3000+?

By the by, Rat^2: how many trainers have you guys personally asked to resign their positions?

added: If the success or failure of the AOA has come down to 12 (or 24, or 36) people's actions alone, then this just reiterates my view that we are in an untenable situation that needs a complete reset.

Last edited by OK4Wire; 19th May 2019 at 00:03.
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Old 19th May 2019, 00:24
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Join Date: Mar 2019
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If you believe there is only 12 you are completely out of touch. Triple that number, add some and more to come! Complete reset required.


Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
So it's even worse than I thought: our well-thought strategy is now going to fail because 12 new trainers are going to join the existing 210 trainers, out of a pilot group of 3000+?

By the by, Rat^2: how many trainers have you guys personally asked to resign their positions?

added: If the success or failure of the AOA has come down to 12 (or 24, or 36) people's actions alone, then this just reiterates my view that we are in an untenable situation that needs a complete reset.
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Old 19th May 2019, 00:56
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Agree that a complete reset is required. A bit like Australia's Labour party, who have just lost their third "unloseable" election.

We lost when B scales were introduced, then C scales, then COS99 and COS18. With a whole host of other losses in between; all the while maintaining the same "winning formula" of contract compliance.

Cancel everything, and have six months of town square meetings, or better yet talk to every member, but please find a new way forward.
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Old 19th May 2019, 01:12
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What roster code would you get if you were to go into training?
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Old 19th May 2019, 01:27
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I believe all the training codes are now not available for viewing.
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Old 19th May 2019, 02:12
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Scabs, the lot of them.
But you’ll still suck up to them when they do your linecheck.
And some of you will even have a beer with them.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:50
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Originally Posted by Piet Lood View Post
Scabs, the lot of them.
But you’ll still suck up to them when they do your linecheck.
And some of you will even have a beer with them.
SCABS are exactly what they are and they need to be named. The AOA also needs to provide a list of their names to all unions worldwide ( particularly The Teamsters in the USA ) and then when one of these SCABS lands a CX plane in North America that is where it will stay. Grounded.
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Old 19th May 2019, 13:28
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Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
Agree that a complete reset is required. A bit like Australia's Labour party, who have just lost their third "unloseable" election.

We lost when B scales were introduced, then C scales, then COS99 and COS18. With a whole host of other losses in between; all the while maintaining the same "winning formula" of contract compliance.

Cancel everything, and have six months of town square meetings, or better yet talk to every member, but please find a new way forward.
Certainly not true when the rot of ‘B’ Scales set in... at the “negotiating” table we told the then DFO that no one would ever come to Hong Kong on such a derisory salary and conditions... he showed us the umpteen job applications he’d had, particularly from the great unwashed land DownUnder, we took his deal to the Mariners Club (the venue for HKAOA meetings at the time) and everybody just sucked up the few increments involved (including yours truly)... the general consensus was, ‘If they are daft enough to come here on those conditions that’s up to them’.... it seems very little has changed...
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