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Bankruptcy in Hong Kong

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Bankruptcy in Hong Kong

Old 4th Apr 2019, 10:22
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
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Bankruptcy in Hong Kong

I left HK in late 2014 after a terrible divorce. Yip another victim of AIDS.

I returned to Sydney and secured a much lower paying job to be near my kids. I had debt amounting to just over 1Million HKD when I left.

I tried to arrange a pay back plan but the banks were impossible, really unhelpful. They were demanding I physically come in and sign documents.

The matter was handed to the Official Receivers Office. I genuinely tried to resolve this issue but even the ORO were cagey and would not answer my questions just demanding information all the time some of which I was not able to supply.

After trying to resolve things for 10 months and wasting more money on more lawyers I gave up. The lawyers in HK were more money hungry and useless than those who dealt with my divorce in Oz.

I have intermittently received emails and summons from the ORO. I admit I have ignored this. I simply cannot go. I have not even been out of Australia since returning because I cannot afford it so how can I attend hearings in HK?

Now there is a court hearing to discharge my debt but the Official Receivers Office is objecting the discharge.

Does anyone have experience with this?

As a matter of curiosity would going to HK on a Gen Dec as flight crew show that a person has entered and left a country?

Thanks for any input.
8 Head In The Clouds is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2019, 23:37
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You need to clarify the AIDS thing. I hope you dont mean what I think you do?
pilotchute is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2019, 01:50
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No, pilchute, I don't think he means what you think it means.

My experience on entering HK on the GD is that, yes, it does show that you entered and left, but it takes some time (days/weeks?) for the data to show up. That's because the GDs are manually marked off. I'm sure this process will get quicker as time goes by and the electronic data from the airlines enters the .gov system more efficiently (for them).
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 03:02
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Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome....It's a similar affliction to Australian Induced Divorce Syndrome.
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 08:24
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
You need to clarify the AIDS thing. I hope you dont mean what I think you do?
no sorry another acronym Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome
8 Head In The Clouds is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2019, 14:50
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Originally Posted by jonathon68 View Post
Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome....It's a similar affliction to Australian Induced Divorce Syndrome.
Is that better or worse than Flight Attendant Induced Divorced Syndrome or FAIDS.
dragon man is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2019, 08:08
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If you re-enter HK even on a Gen Dec, I would say it is very likely you would be detained be HK Immigration, if you fail to play ball you will be arrested & detained by HK Police.
IRD etc & the main "HKGOV" databases are linked. AS you know HK GOV is all about money & if they believe you owe them some you will not be leaving the airport until you pay.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 08:35
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Originally Posted by stevieboy330 View Post
If you re-enter HK even on a Gen Dec, I would say it is very likely you would be detained be HK Immigration, if you fail to play ball you will be arrested & detained by HK Police.
IRD etc & the main "HKGOV" databases are linked. AS you know HK GOV is all about money & if they believe you owe them some you will not be leaving the airport until you pay.
If you owe money to IRD/HK Gov, then sure you will be detained and not allowed to leave until repaying. However if money is owed to banks, I don't believe you would be detained on arrival as this is not something Immigration concerns themselves with (of course if you have some sort of court hearing that you are required to attend but skip it, then probably immigration will be alerted if you try to enter/exit HK).
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 09:40
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You never beat city hall
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 19:23
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Is there a reason that you need to go to HKG in the first place? Either just don't go there anymore, or suck it up and pay your debts like a grown up. It's not that hard.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 03:53
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Firstly, sorry to hear about your 'syndrome'. Nobody can understand what you're going through till they've personally experienced it, unfortunately.

A few things to note:

a) It is not considered illegal to avoid paying your debts except for any owed taxes. It may be considered 'immoral' by others and advised as per Pogie to 'suck it up and pay your debts like a grown up', however, it is not illegal. Only YOU know whether you can afford to pay any bank debt incrementally or nothing at all after 'having done the sums'.

b) Your issue of owing banks an outstanding debt will turn into a civil case however unless you have broken any laws of Hong Kong then you won't be held at Immigration either entering or exiting on a Gen Dec.

3) Speaking about Gen Dec; if you recall, they (Immigration) still tick you off as you enter Hong Kong. It is still 'old fashioned' in comparison say to Australia, U.S. or other countries. However, the time shall come (eventually) whereby Hong Kong will become computerised.

As far as declaring bankruptcy, prudence would dictate to consult a bankruptcy lawyer(if you are able to afford at least 30 minutes consultation) or do some research on the internet and ascertain the consequences of declaring bankrupt. E.g. How will it affect your credit record in Sydney should you require to obtain a personal loan in the future - the consequences if Experian or Equifax obtaining information.
Hellenic aviator is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:25
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Originally Posted by MadMajor View Post
If you owe money to IRD/HK Gov, then sure you will be detained and not allowed to leave until repaying. However if money is owed to banks, I don't believe you would be detained on arrival as this is not something Immigration concerns themselves with (of course if you have some sort of court hearing that you are required to attend but skip it, then probably immigration will be alerted if you try to enter/exit HK).
Thanks for the input. Itís one bank loan. When I left HK I paid all my outstanding taxes etc. Paid out 2 other credit cards (one that the ex maxed out on before I knew of her intention to bail). But this big personal bank loan was one I could not pay. I tried to keep it up, but with the divorce etc I could not come up with almost 11,000 HKD per month.

I did try make a new repayment plan but as mentioned in original post it was Ďcannotí! Plus they were insisting I come in person to try negotiate things and sign documents. FedEx would not do. It was a nightmare.

There is a hearing in a few months for the discharging of the debt. The ORO is trying to object the debt be discharged.

I hope it is discharged. Fingers crossed.
8 Head In The Clouds is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:46
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Originally Posted by Pogie View Post
Is there a reason that you need to go to HKG in the first place? Either just don't go there anymore, or suck it up and pay your debts like a grown up. It's not that hard.
Well Pogie it is that hard. Clearly you are lucky enough not to have to make a choice between your dream job you worked so hard to get or seeing your kids.

Unfortunately I had to get to where I got to by hard work and networking, my aviation career did not come via the airforce route or a cadet scheme or having well off parents who could pad my bottom if I need a bit of help.

From 16 - 30 it was a hard slog doing up to 4 jobs at a time to earn money get my flying hours up, doing dangerous flying that no one else would do. I know other guys in same boat and I am not trying to portray I am a victim.

Getting into CX in 2006 was a massive accomplishment for me s big break. The ex and I had nothing to show for ourselves but finally things were on track. I thought ...

Little did I know my ex would have an affair with a fellow pilot (a few actually) or she would rake up debts and do a runner from HK with my kids and then be vile through the courts using our kids as pawns and trying to get money out me I did not have. Let me not even get into the $58,000 I still owe from legals over last 6 years just trying to see my kids, be a part of their lives and make their mother adhere to court orders.

I did the grown up thing .... paid more than my fair dues. Still paying. Doing right by my kids. At 45 I live with my parents, use my mothers car, I have nothing and will probably never recuperate. Sydney is expensive. My choices : I had to leave CX and a great package or not see my kids enough.

I had a fleet transfer and may need to fly into HK which is why I am asking about this.

8 Head In The Clouds is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:59
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Originally Posted by Hellenic aviator View Post
Firstly, sorry to hear about your 'syndrome'. Nobody can understand what you're going through till they've personally experienced it, unfortunately.

A few things to note:

a) It is not considered illegal to avoid paying your debts except for any owed taxes. It may be considered 'immoral' by others and advised as per Pogie to 'suck it up and pay your debts like a grown up', however, it is not illegal. Only YOU know whether you can afford to pay any bank debt incrementally or nothing at all after 'having done the sums'.

b) Your issue of owing banks an outstanding debt will turn into a civil case however unless you have broken any laws of Hong Kong then you won't be held at Immigration either entering or exiting on a Gen Dec.

3) Speaking about Gen Dec; if you recall, they (Immigration) still tick you off as you enter Hong Kong. It is still 'old fashioned' in comparison say to Australia, U.S. or other countries. However, the time shall come (eventually) whereby Hong Kong will become computerised.

As far as declaring bankruptcy, prudence would dictate to consult a bankruptcy lawyer(if you are able to afford at least 30 minutes consultation) or do some research on the internet and ascertain the consequences of declaring bankrupt. E.g. How will it affect your credit record in Sydney should you require to obtain a personal loan in the future - the consequences if Experian or Equifax obtaining information.

Hellenic Aviator,

Thank you for your measured and well put response. I appreciate it. Also for the understanding.

I did consult a Bankruptcy Lawyer in HK in 2015 and another here in Sydney in 2017. Both pretty much said what you did. I should just pay you 👍🏻😀.

I tried to get a loan for a car in 2017 and was knocked back simply because of my outgoings to Child Support, Spousal Maintenance, big legal fees. It was fortunately nothing to do with the situation in HK.

I am not proud of the fact I have this unpaid debt, I am a pretty decent guy and it bothers me, I really did try sort it and I truly do not have the money to repay it.

I was married when I was younger and my first wife and I divorced due to my chosen career, but no kids involved there. Then this with my 2nd wife and it been nothing but a nightmare.... 6 years of hell.

I have had a fleet transfer and will occasionally fly into HK. This is why this has all surfaced.

Well here is hoping the debt gets discharged.

Thanks Hellenic Aviator.



8 Head In The Clouds is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 13:25
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Aren't Gen Dec's sent to the destination airport in advance of your actual arrival?
BorisTheBlade is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 14:57
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Perhaps you could contact Haldanes (the AOA's law firm) and see if they would offer you an opinion on what risks (if any) you might incur by coming to HK. That aside, you have my sincere sympathy for the situation you have described. I have another pilot friend in HK who went through much the same hell (wife fooled around). Cost him a veritable fortune to sort it out. At least his kids have figured out which parent was the one deserving of contempt. Hope it all works out for you, you sound like a pretty decent person.
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 02:35
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You wonít get a real answer until you go there so why take a chance ?


A better solution would be to ask your current employer to avoid scheduling you
to fly there, they wonít be happy about it
but will probably co-operate, tricky part is
explaining the reason but still better than
being detained in HKG
stilton is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2019, 07:54
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Join Date: Dec 2018
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Originally Posted by Pogie View Post
Is there a reason that you need to go to HKG in the first place? Either just don't go there anymore, or suck it up and pay your debts like a grown up. It's not that hard.
The average case of Prune filth right here. Nothing good to add to a fellow crew member obviously going through hard times, so you just crap on him instead.
On the flipside, kudos to all other posts showing that good airmanship isn't only limited to the flight deck.
G Merch is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2019, 08:19
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by stilton View Post
You wonít get a real answer until you go there so why take a chance ?


A better solution would be to ask your current employer to avoid scheduling you
to fly there, they wonít be happy about it
but will probably co-operate, tricky part is
explaining the reason but still better than
being detained in HKG
Totally agree with this sentiment. I would imagine HKG is a popular trip and if you had a quiet word with your CP I am sure you could be left off the list and never rostered for one. The chance you might be detained in HKG is slim but with all you have descibed the last thing you need is to have that prospect hanging over you. Good luck.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2019, 09:30
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Originally Posted by G Merch View Post
The average case of Prune filth right here. Nothing good to add to a fellow crew member obviously going through hard times, so you just crap on him instead.
On the flipside, kudos to all other posts showing that good airmanship isn't only limited to the flight deck.
Thanks Guys, I am appreciative of all the advice and input and for the guys being constructive rather than negative and frankly lacking in empathy.,

Might try the route of having a quiet chat with my CP, I highly doubt I am Robinson Crusoe on this.

This whole situation is something that bothers me as I do and did try do the right thing.

Keep the blue side up guys.

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