Bankruptcy in Hong Kong
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Thanks Guys, I am appreciative of all the advice and input and for the guys being constructive rather than negative and frankly lacking in empathy.,
Might try the route of having a quiet chat with my CP, I highly doubt I am Robinson Crusoe on this.
This whole situation is something that bothers me as I do and did try do the right thing.
Keep the blue side up guys.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Head in the clouds ,
I am sorry to hear of your predicament , one thing that you could do is write to the bank concerned via recorded delivery laying out your current circumstances income vs expenses , making a reasonable offer to repay the loan at a rate that won’t cripple you . If they reject the offer , I think that would place you in a very solid position
I am sorry to hear of your predicament , one thing that you could do is write to the bank concerned via recorded delivery laying out your current circumstances income vs expenses , making a reasonable offer to repay the loan at a rate that won’t cripple you . If they reject the offer , I think that would place you in a very solid position
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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What Oriental Flyer says above. Also, when talking to your CP is it possible that your present company can make you a loan that you can repay through salary and won't leave you broke? Got to be worth a try.
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BK in HK
Below is an assessment of my experiences of BK in HK. Your experiences could be substantially different. I believe my assumptions are correct. Time has passed since I had my BK reversed though, the civil BK law may have changed since then.
I was made BK in HK. I had no idea as I thought I had left HK for good. When I returned to HK I applied for a credit card and was repeatedly denied. After a little digging I found out why. After a lengthy process (about a year), I was able to have the BK reversed in HK court. It was reversed because the bank, Harlots, Sh*ts, Bast*#rds and C@nts didn't follow the law in declaring me BK in the 1st place. They could not have been more obvious about it if they had tried. Some things I learned along the wai:
HK follows UK law in matters of BK
You as an individual cannot declare yourself BK in HK. You are declared in default of your credit facilities by the court after the court is petitioned by your creditor. You are then issued a demand by the court to repay your loan, this is a civil action not criminal therefore, if you do not then repay you are declared BK by the court and appointed a Receiver by the court. The Receiver is exclusively appointed from the Official Receivers Office. The Receiver then takes over your finances and repays your debt to your creditor. This all supposes that you are still resident in HK.
If you have left HK permanently, this process will wind its way through court in your absence. The onus being on your creditor to enforce the various court orders. This is where I was able to sue my creditor and have the BK order reversed. Court order servicing and defendant notification procedures are very exact, precise and demanding of the creditor. Most creditor buffoons don't have the IQ to get through the 1st page of the regulations, let alone comply with the entire document. Watch very carefully your creditor's actions during this time.
The discharge of debt you mention has me confused as it occurs after an amount of time has passed, usually the end of the financial year of the year your creditor uses. The ORO usually objects initially if they feel there is a chance the the delinquent will repay his debts. However upon the expiry of the financial year and the debt still not having been paid off or being paid off, your creditor will be required by HK accounting law to write off the debt from its books and then the debt can be discharged by the court.
After all this you are BK in HK. Again this is a a civil status not a criminal one. You will not be arrested or placed in a pauper's home, etc. in HK and certainly not in you present country of residence.
If you are flight crew and occasionally/regularly pass through HK on a GD, you will be free to come and go as often as you are scheduled to. You can also pass through PAX channels free from obstruction, regardless of whether you are ticked off on a DG or your passport is checked by HK Immigration Dept. through their databases, As an entering PAX they will know that you are BK, but it is a civil issue not a criminal one and therefore they have no jurisdiction or grounds to impede your entry or exit.
All this changes should you return to HK on a permanent/semi-permanent basis. You will be required, but not compelled by criminal law, to inform your Receiver who will then garnish your salary to repay your debts. HK BK law is draconian as it relates to the delinquent. For instance, you cannot take taxis or eat out without your Receiver okay'ing it first!!
A word about credit reporting. The HK Monetary Auth. issued a franchise to US consumer credit reporting agency TransUnion some time ago. Out of the 3 credit reporting agencies in the US, TransUnion are the most benign and in my opinion, accurate. TransUnion are located in HK in the Ocean Terminal,TST. In order to see your HK credit report, you first have to make an appointment then go there. You are led into a soundproofed, non-windowed room where you will be shown your credit report. I think there is a charge although you may get the 1st one free.
Mine was accurate and showed everything.
The HK Monetary Auth. decrees that all entries into your credit report remain in there FOREVER!! In most 1st world countries, derogatory entries are deleted after between 4 and 8 years and you go on with your financial life intact. So, even though I got my BK reversed, the negative entries regarding the original loan that caused all of this are still there. As an individual, I can't get a loan or a credit card etc. because of this. Doesn't matter as I have all the credit I need from elsewhere AND I could receive credit facilities from an HK financial entity as a Director of one of my HK shelf companies....go figure.
I was made BK in HK. I had no idea as I thought I had left HK for good. When I returned to HK I applied for a credit card and was repeatedly denied. After a little digging I found out why. After a lengthy process (about a year), I was able to have the BK reversed in HK court. It was reversed because the bank, Harlots, Sh*ts, Bast*#rds and C@nts didn't follow the law in declaring me BK in the 1st place. They could not have been more obvious about it if they had tried. Some things I learned along the wai:
HK follows UK law in matters of BK
You as an individual cannot declare yourself BK in HK. You are declared in default of your credit facilities by the court after the court is petitioned by your creditor. You are then issued a demand by the court to repay your loan, this is a civil action not criminal therefore, if you do not then repay you are declared BK by the court and appointed a Receiver by the court. The Receiver is exclusively appointed from the Official Receivers Office. The Receiver then takes over your finances and repays your debt to your creditor. This all supposes that you are still resident in HK.
If you have left HK permanently, this process will wind its way through court in your absence. The onus being on your creditor to enforce the various court orders. This is where I was able to sue my creditor and have the BK order reversed. Court order servicing and defendant notification procedures are very exact, precise and demanding of the creditor. Most creditor buffoons don't have the IQ to get through the 1st page of the regulations, let alone comply with the entire document. Watch very carefully your creditor's actions during this time.
The discharge of debt you mention has me confused as it occurs after an amount of time has passed, usually the end of the financial year of the year your creditor uses. The ORO usually objects initially if they feel there is a chance the the delinquent will repay his debts. However upon the expiry of the financial year and the debt still not having been paid off or being paid off, your creditor will be required by HK accounting law to write off the debt from its books and then the debt can be discharged by the court.
After all this you are BK in HK. Again this is a a civil status not a criminal one. You will not be arrested or placed in a pauper's home, etc. in HK and certainly not in you present country of residence.
If you are flight crew and occasionally/regularly pass through HK on a GD, you will be free to come and go as often as you are scheduled to. You can also pass through PAX channels free from obstruction, regardless of whether you are ticked off on a DG or your passport is checked by HK Immigration Dept. through their databases, As an entering PAX they will know that you are BK, but it is a civil issue not a criminal one and therefore they have no jurisdiction or grounds to impede your entry or exit.
All this changes should you return to HK on a permanent/semi-permanent basis. You will be required, but not compelled by criminal law, to inform your Receiver who will then garnish your salary to repay your debts. HK BK law is draconian as it relates to the delinquent. For instance, you cannot take taxis or eat out without your Receiver okay'ing it first!!
A word about credit reporting. The HK Monetary Auth. issued a franchise to US consumer credit reporting agency TransUnion some time ago. Out of the 3 credit reporting agencies in the US, TransUnion are the most benign and in my opinion, accurate. TransUnion are located in HK in the Ocean Terminal,TST. In order to see your HK credit report, you first have to make an appointment then go there. You are led into a soundproofed, non-windowed room where you will be shown your credit report. I think there is a charge although you may get the 1st one free.
Mine was accurate and showed everything.
The HK Monetary Auth. decrees that all entries into your credit report remain in there FOREVER!! In most 1st world countries, derogatory entries are deleted after between 4 and 8 years and you go on with your financial life intact. So, even though I got my BK reversed, the negative entries regarding the original loan that caused all of this are still there. As an individual, I can't get a loan or a credit card etc. because of this. Doesn't matter as I have all the credit I need from elsewhere AND I could receive credit facilities from an HK financial entity as a Director of one of my HK shelf companies....go figure.
Last edited by bang ding ow; 28th Apr 2019 at 18:57. Reason: spelling
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Well Pogie it is that hard. Clearly you are lucky enough not to have to make a choice between your dream job you worked so hard to get or seeing your kids.
Unfortunately I had to get to where I got to by hard work and networking, my aviation career did not come via the airforce route or a cadet scheme or having well off parents who could pad my bottom if I need a bit of help.
From 16 - 30 it was a hard slog doing up to 4 jobs at a time to earn money get my flying hours up, doing dangerous flying that no one else would do. I know other guys in same boat and I am not trying to portray I am a victim.
Getting into CX in 2006 was a massive accomplishment for me s big break. The ex and I had nothing to show for ourselves but finally things were on track. I thought ...
Little did I know my ex would have an affair with a fellow pilot (a few actually) or she would rake up debts and do a runner from HK with my kids and then be vile through the courts using our kids as pawns and trying to get money out me I did not have. Let me not even get into the $58,000 I still owe from legals over last 6 years just trying to see my kids, be a part of their lives and make their mother adhere to court orders.
I did the grown up thing .... paid more than my fair dues. Still paying. Doing right by my kids. At 45 I live with my parents, use my mothers car, I have nothing and will probably never recuperate. Sydney is expensive. My choices : I had to leave CX and a great package or not see my kids enough.
I had a fleet transfer and may need to fly into HK which is why I am asking about this.
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I have little sympathy for people who get in over their heads borrowing.
I have even less sympathy for people who lend money poorly. Or come up with 'easy finance' stuff charging huge interest rates (or a convoluted system which balloons the interest later) with little real collateral or security involved. Enablers of bad behavior and if they get stiffed I put it pretty deeply into the 'had it coming' category. FWIW this is routinely done on a masters degree level with currency manipulation, hedges, CDOs, you name it. So I see little shame (and possibly some benefit) in the walk away principle for those kinds of folks.
Slasher. And Pogie. For the love of humanity. He sounds like a perfectly decent guy who’s been sh@t on. There for the grace of God go a lot of us. He’s trying to do the decent thing and elicit a sensible response here. Probably in the wrong place admittedly.
I sincerely hope you never face this sort of situation; colleagues (and I don’t count you as one ) have topped themselves over less.
Let up.
I sincerely hope you never face this sort of situation; colleagues (and I don’t count you as one ) have topped themselves over less.
Let up.
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Slasher. And Pogie. For the love of humanity. He sounds like a perfectly decent guy who’s been sh@t on. There for the grace of God go a lot of us. He’s trying to do the decent thing and elicit a sensible response here. Probably in the wrong place admittedly.
I sincerely hope you never face this sort of situation; colleagues (and I don’t count you as one ) have topped themselves over less.
Let up.
I sincerely hope you never face this sort of situation; colleagues (and I don’t count you as one ) have topped themselves over less.
Let up.
Point being that you might have missed is I see absolutely nothing wrong with stiffing creditors (through whatever method) who have behaved badly. But I also don't like to hear much whining from people who bought into too good to be true schemes either; whatever they might be.
