Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

DSS plea...

Old 29th Jan 2019, 23:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
The fact that you suggest there are only two options suggest you are trying to manipulate opinion, morningcoffee.
As is everyone else on here saying vote no.

Even I was surprised at the hypocrisy from the vote No (but remain as spineless as possible) crowd.
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 00:50
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Dan Buster View Post


This is not a vote about ramping up or escalating.

Vote NO, stay in CC/TB, go back to negotiation, negotiate a FAIR deal. (For both sides) Pretty clear cut.

Time iteslf is ramping up the TB pressure anyway.
Exactly. Vote NO will mean we keep the status quo for now and continue to apply pressure which gives leverage in a new negotiation. This pressure can be eased or increased at will but ONLY if we vote NO, now.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 01:56
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,917
For maybe the first time ever, I agree with MC. Sh!t or get off the pot!!! If you donít have enough spine to do more than wear a red CC lanyard and turn down training opportunities, then this weak a$$ proposal is all you deserve. Want better? Fight harder!
cxorcist is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 03:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
For maybe the first time ever, I agree with MC. Sh!t or get off the pot!!! If you donít have enough spine to do more than wear a red CC lanyard and turn down training opportunities, then this weak a$$ proposal is all you deserve. Want better? Fight harder!
I get the feeling the company does not care if we vote Yes. It would be great for them and the bonuses if we did.... But realistically did they ever really believe the majority would vote Yes?
RAT Management is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 05:09
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 749
MC. The ďPanic Merchant ď. (We smell your fear...)
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 06:54
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
For maybe the first time ever, I agree with MC. Sh!t or get off the pot!!! If you donít have enough spine to do more than wear a red CC lanyard and turn down training opportunities, then this weak a$$ proposal is all you deserve. Want better? Fight harder!
Bullshit.

I personally would love nothing more than escalating to the max, but I am probably in the minority. But voting on the TA on its merits without doing any more is perfectly fine too.

Even the idiots try to sell this turd say it is not a good deal! If it is not a good deal, vote no, and then have the balls to not give a shit what the company will do as you have been asked if you want this deal or not. You havenít been asked if you are too scared to vote no as the boogie monster might get angry. Not is fine with me
Brown Nose is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 08:04
  #27 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 12
Donít give them intel!!!!

DFO is resorting to phishing to get intel!

if he wants to gauge interest, he should offer the slots and then open the base slots for bidding like itís always been done in the past!

give them nothing! Stand united! Donít fall for the click bait!

do not fill in anything!
Jackschitt is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 10:41
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: all over
Posts: 130
I find it funny how he thinks he will remain as the chairman after a NO vote
flapsupdown is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:24
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: london
Posts: 45
My scam filter is currently overloaded with all the written desperation from DS and CX to save this clinically dead agreement.

Please let this be over soon.

And yeah, it's still a big fat NO.
FUANNA is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:31
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 555
Latest ds email about what will happen if we vote yes..

"the TA includes an obligation for negotiation for pay".... that and 2 dollars gets me on the hong kong island tram...
Why don't they give us a number and THEN we will vote....what's the rush guys?

"we have received assurances that these will be dealt with expeditiously" (about vacancy bid and reduced roster option)
'Assurances' don't mean jack in this company, how many 'assurances' have we had in the past?

Oasis is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 14:24
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,917
ďOpen the government, then weíll negotiate border security.Ē Yeah right, howís that working out? In other words, give us a big win and then weíll tell you to get stuffed, nicely of course. Time to declare a national emergency, because thatís what it is.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 20:49
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Moonbase A
Posts: 27
Two letters from DS in a short time with over 1000 words.
whats up with that?
When the membership wanted information about precedings or something like COS18 their was no info forthcoming.
thanks DS for finally writing.
But the stuff you write is embarrassing.
How about a NO, no escalation, and go negotiate the stuff we ,the memebership gave you to begin with!
Escalation should start after these negotiations go sour.
The company wants the jets flying. And at this rate less and less jets will be flying because of CX management.
not us!
sjimmy is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2019, 23:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,612
Colleagues,

As most of you are aware, I no longer have a direct "stake" in the game. However, I still respect and honour my colleagues who have been so badly mistreated by this management over far too many years. I can say without equivocation that this is the most momentous vote in the history of the AOA. It is also a vote where it is plainly obvious that the company is desperate to force through one last attempt to neuter and render powerless that same AOA. Even though the company desperately needs a co-operative and pliant workforce, their arrogance sees them once again attempting to bully, intimidate, manipulate and deceive.

There is absolutely nothing in the offer that is worth you giving away the leverage you currently have. It is a fact that the TB and CC are slowly but surely crippling the organisation. It is also a fact that a turning point in the pilot/demand ratio in the industry has finally reduced below 1:1, and many more pilots in CX have either already left, or are making plans to do so. Both those facts combine to put CX management in a place where they are thrashing around, confused and panicked seeing their usual game plan no longer working.

All you have to do now is vote NO, remain stubbornly wedded to the TB and CC and watch as management is left with no choice but to finally begin restoring conditions and work practices to industry norms. Ask yourselves one simple question: "if this was an offer to the pilot groups of BA, QF, UA, DL, AA, LH, AF etc, etc,...would their pilot groups have a single "yes" vote?" . If the obvious answer is NO, then why would a single CX pilot vote for it either?.

Let this insulting, damaging and career ending proposal die the death it deserves. Let the company threaten and intimidate. Ultimately it is healthier for every single one of you to see the true nature of the beast that you work for. You will then know whether there is truly hope for a career in CX or not. With that information you can properly plan and secure the remaining years of your careers. The truth is a far better reality to deal with than lies, deception and false hope. The only way to truly find out the value of the future in CX is to throw this appalling offer back in their faces and insist that they provide you with a proper contract, with industry leading conditions and work rules. Anything less and you have squandered your careers.

I wish everyone the best, and truly hope to see a career at CX returned to the status it once deserved. Traf.
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2019, 19:09
  #34 (permalink)  
okm
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 27
Well said Traf. Thanks
okm is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2019, 22:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 2
The point is this is the best negotiations that are going to happen. DSS is trying to say without support and or a push of action, this is the best they have. You want to do better you have to as a group squeeze the money out.
jellyfishunter is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2019, 22:09
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 573
To follow on as Traf's message, there are only two choices in this farce...

1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..

OR

2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!

Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.

May the Force be with you.
Flex88 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2019, 00:07
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Flex88 View Post
To follow on as Traf's message, there are only two choices in this farce...

1. Vote "yes" and you are wholeheartedly agreeing to yourself and all your colleagues getting shafted in a career debasing agreement..

OR

2. Vote "NO" and, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can save your dignity knowing that you didn't just drop your knickers bend over and say "please ram this piece of garbage up my rear sir" !!

Voting for #2 is, without any question whatsoever, THE ONLY option if you believe, one way or the other, there "may" be "some" chance of improving conditions in the future. Period.

May the Force be with you.
Biggest surprise from the vote is how spineless the membership is now that DS has suggested upping CC. The company will find a work around for the TB and then what?

ND would be shocked at the utter lack of resolve.
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2019, 01:30
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post

Biggest surprise from the vote is how spineless the membership is now that DS has suggested upping CC. The company will find a work around for the TB and then what?

ND would be shocked at the utter lack of resolve.
Not true at all. Maybe youíre projecting your own lack of spine, but SO many are ready to walk. Or quit. Or do something else. Please take your own down-and-out attitude to a different profession. Weíre busy trying to improve ours.
plainpilot11 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2019, 01:56
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,917
Originally Posted by plainpilot11 View Post

Not true at all. Maybe youíre projecting your own lack of spine, but SO many are ready to walk. Or quit. Or do something else. Please take your own down-and-out attitude to a different profession. Weíre busy trying to improve ours.
Itís true and not. Many are willing to walk, except South Africans and locals. Those staying are, in many cases, just gauging the value of their seniority against starting over somewhere else. If the status quo does not improve, I believe those actually leaving will increase substantially compared to what we see today. I think the Company errany thinks that most of those willing or able to leave have left. This is wrong.

That said, nobody wants to be the only one charging the enemy while the rest sit in their trenches. Think JL. This Company will only relent under a full assault from a vast majority of the pilots. KA and based unions need to pony up too. This ďIím alright JackĒ mentality needs to go. If we donít put a stop to this, none of us are going to be alright, including KA and based pilots.

Leadership from the HKAOA is definitely lacking. They seem to want the membership to take the reigns while they lead from behind. This is weak, not leadership. If you canít or wonít lead, get the hell off the GC. That includes you DSS and RL.

I disagreed with most of Rodís leadership because he ran a one man show, but at least he had [email protected] and vision. Iím not getting any of that from the current cohort. They seem completely hypnotized and duped by this spineless management team.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2019, 01:57
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 296
I am sure that the DFOís insipid video presentation will inspire many NO votes.
Farman Biplane is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.