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Beyond 55 extensions are here.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Beyond 55 extensions are here.

Old 13th Nov 2018, 09:26
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 619
Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
Frogman: as much as I would LOVE to see numbers like that, my figures show something closer to 45 next year and about 60 for the following year.

However, I believe we lost about 100 in 2014, when the retirement number should have been 12, and this year should have seen only 25 go, so we are seeing many multiples more leave.
Ok4wire pretty close to my figures - though you departures for 2014 are too high according to my figures.
Numero Crunchero is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 12:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 0
I don't think CX is prepared in any way to deal with the tsunami of resignations that is about to hit them. This has only been the warm up act to date. The main show is about to begin.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 13:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 316
I've been hearing about the wave of resignations coming for the last 18 months and not enough has happened to truly worry the company. What makes you think or know the wave is coming . Not having a go, genuinely curious if anyone has hard facts because just someone saying in the flight deck they are looking at other options does not mean they are leaving
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 13:26
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 0
Your premise is incorrect. The resignations are concerning the company, but they have decided to bluff it out. There is obviously another agenda at play, because a management who truly cared about the long term health and safety of the airline would be alarmed at what is happening, and would be doing far more to ensure satisfied employees. As for number, as mentioned earlier, 4 on Monday alone...and many more in the midst of securing employment elsewhere. Come back in 12 months and we can debate the facts instead of the rumour. I'll stand on the fact that I know of many individuals who are awaiting interviews, course dates or at the very least are getting their applications in. COS18 has stripped away any illusions as to what awaits them if they stay with CX. Not many that I know are willing to risk wasting any more time with an airline that plainly doesn't value them, and in fact treats them with utter contempt (example:higher housing to a new hire than someone who's been here 10 years !). Not much more to say. CX management have said all anyone needs to hear.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 20:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 311
How many have signed over to COS18 already as they approach 55? Does anyone have any numbers?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2018, 22:53
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 516
That 777 STC was a poor negotiator.

POS18 will not work for a normal B scale family who is renting, a couple kids at an ESF or international school or at boarding school overseas.

POS18 is designed for commuters or if the kids have moved out and CX already paid off a flat.

Why on earth would you take such a huge pay cut just to continue working for CX? I know...staff travel seniority!

Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 16th Dec 2018 at 23:07.
AQIS Boigu is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 00:58
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 221
I cannot fathom the complete lack of situational awareness of a person who would not only extend his employment under inferior conditions but also want to engage in staff travel in retirement down the road. Knowing full well the ramifications of POS 18 on safety.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 08:37
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 1
Viagra has much to answer for would be my guess... alimony and a new young family to support
Freehills is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 09:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,126
Also, when you're staring 55 in the face and you are fit and well, it does seem too young to retire. There is a certain value to staying where you are and working for the "devil you know", especially if you own your own house in HKG. It's not all about money. In 2003-6 many pilots went from the 747-400 back to the 747-200F on a much lower salary for a few years until the RA65 came in and they went back to the -400 on original conditions etc. At the time it was an excellent deal and those pilots were employed usefully for another 10 years. It was a transition time and, of course, some FOs were delayed in getting Commands. It happened in Airlines all over the world too.
Things change and - of course the comment about Viagra may be relevant too. If you expect senior guys to retire early when they don't have to, I think you're deluded and you probably would do the same as they are doing.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 10:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
Arfur, don’t come crying on how your conditions are so shit once you accept the deal. Just like the 747 guy who used they jokers to move to the 747 when the airbus rosters were bad. Now they stuck on a crap fleet and want to change the deal they signed for in the first place, and expect the rest of us to give up concessions for them to improve their conditions
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 11:31
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 37
Frog. Apples and oranges. Arfur makes a valid point. What are these concessions you are in fear of being asked to give up? Do you think you're entitled to command at a certain wicket? Where is that promise written down because I missed that. Or is it that you are worried about being kicked off of the "good" fleet onto the other one? Where is the guarantee that you get to stay on a certain fleet? I suspect you could use a little empathy in raising the conditions you agreed to. Might you have a little empathy for others and see if that comes back to assist you? Don't let the paranoid outlook of those like RF who created this mess for all of us affect your ability to empathise with your colleagues who may not look like you or be your age.
claraball is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 11:44
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,126
Frogman - Can you read my post again. I'm not crying about anything (did you read the bit about "excellent deal"??). I was lucky to be offered a 200F job at 55 and took it gladly. Didn't really care about salary but it was pretty good for an "early retirement" slot. Went back onto the -400/777 anyway so it was a bloody good decision. As I said, when the retirement age changes by 10 years some Commands will be delayed but those people will get to work until 65 instead of 55. Claraball makes a good point too. "Command" is not a given anyway.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 11:50
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 564
Sorry to slid reality into the thread, but 99% of airline pilots worldwide work to 65 years of age. And these are the companies many on here think are great to go fork for.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 13:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Honky
Posts: 168
And that is why this TB/CC is a complete piece of s### for SO/FOs. You're delaying your upgrade and fighting 99% of this battle while guys like these in the last few posts sit fat dumb and happy with absolutely nothing to lose!
Xwindldg is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 17:00
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: everywhere
Posts: 503
Anyone who signs over to Cos 18 is legitimising an absolutely crap contract and helping the company screw over everyone.
It’s a Pilot’s market out there. Go out and get a job on a descent contract rather than [email protected]Á# over your comrades. COS18 is the company’s permanent fix to all of those pesky pilots having a voice to stop the rot.
flyhardmo is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 18:32
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 241
xwindldg,

I hate to burst your bubble, but an end to CC/TB does not lead to a promotion bonanza!

The company is quite content to grow at a glacial pace, in particular due HKIA operational constraints. They have also realised considerable cost savings in 2 x SO ops (one example) so, sadly, that is here to stay. Similarly, crewing efficiencies via the CMP - fewer crew needed.

So itís going to be 5 years to FO, and 12 -15 years to command, just like many other legacy airlines.

I sure hope people donít vote for an inferior agreement in the mistaken belief theyíll suddenly see a promotion.
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2018, 22:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 100
Personally , if I were on COS 99 and approaching 55 , I would look at any number of Far East carriers that are offering really good money with commuting rosters in preference to sighting over to COS 18
Tea time is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 01:34
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
Sorry to slid reality into the thread, but 99% of airline pilots worldwide work to 65 years of age. And these are the companies many on here think are great to go fork for.
100% are able to, the reality is that only about 90% make it.

The big difference is that its known, and the years before retirement are generally with great schedules and topped out pay. Not on concessionary terms subject to company scheduling abuse.
CX ex is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 02:08
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 35,000 feet
Posts: 41
$305,000 US$ at Hainan tax free better than any POS18 Pay scale. See the Banner ad on PPRuNe.org
viking avenger is offline  

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