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So if itís so bad....why arenít you all quitting?

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

So if itís so bad....why arenít you all quitting?

Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:28
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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So if itís so bad....why arenít you all quitting?

Just curious as an outsider reading the dialogue of all the forums here and elsewhere....

If CX is THAT BAD and the conditions etc etc why arenít you all leaving in droves?

Iím no management stooge..just a line driver elsewhere and curious what all the angst is since it doesnít seem like a massive amount of guys are leaving and causing massive disruption at CX? If itís so effing rubbish..why arenít you all leaving en masse? Not judging....just bloody curious!
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:30
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Four FOís resigned yesterday. Next question...
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:59
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Red face Ahaaaa

Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Four FOís resigned yesterday. Next question...
So why arenít you???
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 12:24
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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The fact that I just sold my HK place, and am having a new home built back in Oz should probably answer that question. The real question is why would anyone come here when those that are here are nearly all looking to escape? Real airlines don't have their pilots leaving in double digits per month.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 12:37
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Way to miss the point Gpilot (and why didn't you go for 4 ?, just for effect?). It's not about whether one particular pilot stays or leaves. It's about the fact that nearly every pilot between 25 and 45 yrs old are making serious plans to leave (I personally know of over 40 that are making such plans, they each probably know a similar number...and so on). It's about the fact that we are seeing nearly a pilot a day resign (4 on Monday alone). It's about the fact that nothing this management does at this point will change that situation. It's about the fact that we have the most odious managers in the industry. It's about the fact that nearly every pilot here (and their families) are utterly disillusioned and fed up. It's about the fact that HK is a toxic, unaffordable and oppressive place to live. It's about the fact that nearly every expat pilot will have left within a very short time. It's about the fact that most of us here have concluded that there is NO future in staying with CX. But you go right ahead and jump in the sea, the waters lovely.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 15:11
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by Flava Saver View Post
Just curious as an outsider reading the dialogue of all the forums here and elsewhere....

If CX is THAT BAD and the conditions etc etc why arenít you all leaving in droves?

Iím no management stooge..just a line driver elsewhere and curious what all the angst is since it doesnít seem like a massive amount of guys are leaving and causing massive disruption at CX? If itís so effing rubbish..why arenít you all leaving en masse? Not judging....just bloody curious!
The simple answer is age vs seniority balanced against jobs in your home country, guessing as others have those below 45 can possibly do 20 years at another carrier.

How old are you Flava Saver?
​​​​
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 15:33
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Because we're hoping bases will open up and that way we won't have to take time out converting licences to apply for jobs, sit stupid COMPASS tests, learning new manuals and start at the bottom of the seniority pile.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 16:59
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by Jnr380 View Post
Because we're hoping bases will open up and that way we won't have to take time out converting licences to apply for jobs, sit stupid COMPASS tests, learning new manuals and start at the bottom of the seniority pile.

I don't mind the license conversions, learning new manuals and starting at the bottom of the seniority list - that's in any professional job; the stupid COMPASS tests is nothing more than a money making scam considering we are currently flying wide bodies internationally. HR treats everyone the same.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 17:28
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I'm one of those who quit. After almost a decade in this madhouse.

It's a damn hard choice. Throwing away all those years invested in what should have been a lifetime career choice.

It's not a single issue that tipped the scales. It's a creeping slide in the wrong direction, and you're always hoping things will start getting better. Always. And with every year invested you've got more to lose.

I finally came to the hard conclusion that things will never improve. They'll keep getting worse, because this outfit simply does not want me at current costs. And since they can't fire me simply for that, they'll make every effort to get me to leave voluntarily. Success.

Once that decision was made, it was easy. But many years too late.

For many with long careers prior to joining here, the loss in seniority a) first from your previous operation and b) from this lot leaves you 20 years behind. For many of us, that may well result in never getting a Command again.

The decision is hard, no doubt about it. But it is the right choice; none of us regret leaving but all of us regret not doing it sooner.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:03
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Originally Posted by quadspeed View Post
I'm one of those who quit. After almost a decade in this madhouse.

It's a damn hard choice. Throwing away all those years invested in what should have been a lifetime career choice.

It's not a single issue that tipped the scales. It's a creeping slide in the wrong direction, and you're always hoping things will start getting better. Always. And with every year invested you've got more to lose.

I finally came to the hard conclusion that things will never improve. They'll keep getting worse, because this outfit simply does not want me at current costs. And since they can't fire me simply for that, they'll make every effort to get me to leave voluntarily. Success.

Once that decision was made, it was easy. But many years too late.

For many with long careers prior to joining here, the loss in seniority a) first from your previous operation and b) from this lot leaves you 20 years behind. For many of us, that may well result in never getting a Command again.

The decision is hard, no doubt about it. But it is the right choice; none of us regret leaving but all of us regret not doing it sooner.
This is a great post! Sage advice I suspect.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:10
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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I quit too and I echo your sentiments exactly. I did 10 years in the joint. Life would have been a hell of a lot easier if the company had stayed the same as the one I joined but alas, I could see the place rapidly spiralling down the plug hole.
As soon as C scales came along it was game over for me despite personally being on the better B scale contract. This indicated the road that lay ahead.
Its a huge shame as I miss Asia a lot and I miss the mates I met in Cathay/Hong Kong. The great travesty however is that Cathay really could have been the best flying job going.

Last edited by Threethirty; 13th Nov 2018 at 19:37.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 20:18
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Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
I quit too and I echo your sentiments exactly. I did 10 years in the joint. Life would have been a hell of a lot easier if the company had stayed the same as the one I joined but alas, I could see the place rapidly spiralling down the plug hole.
As soon as C scales came along it was game over for me despite personally being on the better B scale contract. This indicated the road that lay ahead.
Its a huge shame as I miss Asia a lot and I miss the mates I met in Cathay/Hong Kong. The great travesty however is that Cathay really could have been the best flying job going.
Yes 330, it could be the best gig in the world. No other airline in the world has a home market, both passenger and cargo, that is as lucrative as CX in Hong Kong. The airline had a huge ďfirst mover advantageĒ (economics term), but they have managed to p!ss most of that away via poor management and being completely devoid of leadership. Their insane arrogance and greed has cost them many times over. Ultimately, the Swires are responsible, but they will never be held to account. That said, I donít imagine the mainlanders at Air China are all that thrilled. Maybe theyíll take their revenge another way, not that it will help us any.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 20:52
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Originally Posted by Jnr380 View Post
Because we're hoping bases will open up and that way we won't have to take time out converting licences to apply for jobs, sit stupid COMPASS tests, learning new manuals and start at the bottom of the seniority pile.

Hahahaha...."bases opening up"...!!!! You are KILLING me!! Ahhh, the naivety of youth...
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 21:54
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Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard View Post
Hahahaha...."bases opening up"...!!!! You are KILLING me!! Ahhh, the naivety of youth...
Agreed! Bases are done. All that is left is CoS18 on HKPA or a possible ďcommuting contractĒ that will have you away far more than at home; or what you have now (CoS99 or 08) ... maybe if youíre lucky!
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 00:20
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Originally Posted by Hellenic aviator View Post
.......and starting at the bottom of the seniority list - that's in any professional job; ......
Only in aviation does a skilled veteran become a janitor when changing companies.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 00:26
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Originally Posted by Hellenic aviator View Post
.......and starting at the bottom of the seniority list - that's in any professional job; ......
Only in aviation does a skilled veteran become a janitor when changing companies.

Makes starting again a difficult choice, we'd all be gone sooner should we be able to be employed in a role based on experience, funnily enough how the rest of the world operates.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 00:49
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Originally Posted by Hellenic aviator View Post
starting at the bottom of the seniority list - that's in any professional job;.
No, a professional moves sideways or a step up within their field when they move companies.

I dont see doctors going from being a consultant back down to intern, A director moving companies to go back as Manager.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 01:40
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
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There is light at the end of the tunnel. Am following the grilling of CX management live... Be assured Swire will now take action and get rid of many of them. Slosar seriously stated that in hindsight, it was not good to delay the disclosure of the hacking for so long. Wow, anyone with so little foresight, believing to get away with hiding, lying and deceiving, is good for cleaning toilets, nothing else; apologies though to all toilet cleaners with integrity!

update from the grilling of Slosar:The Cathay CEO hints that the airline will keep passengers happy with vague promises of "special offers that people can get excited about"

wow... chocolate to the kids in this kindergarten company... This is the Chairman of a previous leading world airline...
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 02:10
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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wow... chocolate to the kids in this kindergarten company... This is the Chairman of a previous leading world airline...
Ah, for the good old days when Ivan was in charge. He would have cleverly explained how the data breach was a good thing.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 05:32
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Flava Saver,
I am still here because I am on expat contract and able to save enough money for an early retirement.
A bit like a prisoner who would tick out every day until he can enjoy his life again.
That's sad but it's what it is, I am too close to the release date to break out of jail !

On COS18, don't even dream of retiring early, you'll be jailed for 40 years !!!
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