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CX Parking Planes?

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CX Parking Planes?

Old 27th Jun 2018, 01:52
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 510
Morning Coffee...excellent post! You pleasantly surprised me. Iíve disagreed with you on some past discussions, but you are spot on today! I tip my hat to you.

It bothers me when the Company tryís to drive down our pay (as they have over and over and over) by comparing our pay to low cost, third world, carriers. All the while ignoring (pretending not to notice) the better overall package paid to the sister airline in our own group! Things like hourly duty pay, university education, better leave..and of course, a guaranteed 13th month are items in the Dragon contract that are not in the Cathay contract.

If the Dragon contract was inferior to the Cathay contract our management would be beating us over the head with it. The fact that they never even mention it (pretending not to notice) speaks volumes about which contract is better.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 03:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
Good luck with that next offer giggy! Missed opportunity perhaps?
Weíll just have to wait and see on that one.

MC. If we are sitting on the gate then we are not getting paid overtime either. The park brake has to be off for that. We do get paid an hourly duty pay but thatís beer money in comparison to OT.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 05:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Yes

Iíve parked quite a few lately.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 09:10
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
Morning Coffee...excellent post! You pleasantly surprised me. Iíve disagreed with you on some past discussions, but you are spot on today! I tip my hat to you.

It bothers me when the Company tryís to drive down our pay (as they have over and over and over) by comparing our pay to low cost, third world, carriers. All the while ignoring (pretending not to notice) the better overall package paid to the sister airline in our own group! Things like hourly duty pay, university education, better leave..and of course, a guaranteed 13th month are items in the Dragon contract that are not in the Cathay contract.

If the Dragon contract was inferior to the Cathay contract our management would be beating us over the head with it. The fact that they never even mention it (pretending not to notice) speaks volumes about which contract is better.
Trouble is it sometimes comes across (though I am sure you don't mean it) as sour grapes/ jealousy, rather than congratulating them for it
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 10:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
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a guaranteed 13th month are items in the Dragon contract that are not in the Cathay contract.
It was once, but was rolled into the monthly pay. When KA started 30 years ago, the contract was almost a carbon copy of the CX contract. The differences you see now are because unlike the AOA, the DPA have given up almost nothing from the contract.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 14:41
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 510
Free hills,
Good point. I have mates at Dragon, my comments are in NO WAY meant to denigrate the great guys/gals at Dragon. Far from it. I only wish to point out the obvious when the Company pretends not to notice the better contract at our sister airline (not to mention legacy carriers in first world countries) while comparing ours to low cost, third world, start ups.

I hope our Dragon colleagues understand that what I am doing is calling out the “divide and conquer” tactics so obviously on display.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 23:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
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So some of you are happy with your mates at KA training CX Airbus Crew so the company can get around the training ban. Because theyíre your mates? Or is that not happening?

But thx for clearing up the perception that KA got OT if they went past block time due delays before push.

Kudos to KA for getting provident fund paid as cash, the deluded amongst us at CX think the moneyís as safe as in the bank. Lol

Last edited by morningcoffee; 29th Jun 2018 at 00:42.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 02:10
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
Kudos to KA for getting provident fund paid as cash, the deluded amongst us at CX think the moneyís as safe as in the bank. Lol
MC: Sincere question. How is my CX provident fund at risk? Thanks.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 23:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by arse View Post
MC: Sincere question. How is my CX provident fund at risk? Thanks.
because the dfo has already posted something along the lines of concessions with regard to provident fund....i.e. the company paying too much and want to align it to local terms for contributions.
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Old 30th Jun 2018, 00:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Yes and sheís on the way out.
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Old 30th Jun 2018, 01:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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And many of the rest of us will be out the door as well if they try messing with our already inadequate provident fund. Unbelievable.
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Old 30th Jun 2018, 03:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
Interesting you bring up OT, I sat waiting in the queue for Beijing recently with a 70 minute delay and got paid zero for it while my colleagues a few gates down at KA also going to Beijing picked up nearly an hourís overtime.
And what was your credit factor for the subsequent flight? What was theirs?
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Old 30th Jun 2018, 12:42
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by Scoreboard View Post


because the dfo has already posted something along the lines of concessions with regard to provident fund....i.e. the company paying too much and want to align it to local terms for contributions.
Any devaluation of terms and the company will start to look for a large size parking spot. Pilots are really fed up with this place anyway.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 00:57
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by arse View Post
MC: Sincere question. How is my CX provident fund at risk? Thanks.
Seriously? Do some homework. Wouldn't matter if you are in Qantas or BA, where you also work for a publicly listed company. There is no big warehouse full of your money and everybody else's money that they've contributed to a provident fund. Not here, not anywhere. My point is simply to spread your risk.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 01:36
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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From what I gather that doesnít seem to be true. I might be naive here, but my ORSO is in my name with the employers contribution and my contribution clearly defined, managed by a third party (HSBC).

I canít see how anyone could appropriate my ORSO account? Itís not the same system as a pension system where the entire groups money is all lumped together and you have the rights to a certain part of the pie when itís your time. This is simply an individual savings/investment portfolio.

Not the most ideal one (have a look at the charges), but it seems to be mine providing I comply with the rules set out in the scheme.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 04:43
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
Seriously? Do some homework. Wouldn't matter if you are in Qantas or BA, where you also work for a publicly listed company. There is no big warehouse full of your money and everybody else's money that they've contributed to a provident fund. Not here, not anywhere. My point is simply to spread your risk.
I'd rather not drift into CX Provident Fund theory (unless you would prefer a separate thread on the topic) but; I see your "Seriously?", ... and raise you a "LOL". You speak like someone who does not understand how the CX Provident Fund is administered. But that is OK. 99% of people don't.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 04:55
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
Seriously? Do some homework. Wouldn't matter if you are in Qantas or BA, where you also work for a publicly listed company. There is no big warehouse full of your money and everybody else's money that they've contributed to a provident fund. Not here, not anywhere. My point is simply to spread your risk.

Depends on where you are and how it is set up. If the fund relies on benefits based on the solvency of the company (including national pension schemes and Social Security, etc.) this is correct. There are some national guarantee schemes but these are usually a fraction of what the benefits might have been.

In a 401K or 401-K like scheme not so much in that it is your money to start with and national laws preclude external meddling. So these types of funds cannot be touched except by the beneficiary. Now I guess you could argue that the individually chosen investmentsówhich often have wide choicesó are only as safe as the market at large but then again so is the cash and banking systems of most nations. And if these all come down at once itís probanly time to head for the hills to fight the zombies anyway.

It is wise never ever to put all your eggs in one basket though.

Last edited by Shep69; 1st Jul 2018 at 06:54.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 07:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post

Interesting you bring up OT, I sat waiting in the queue for Beijing recently with a 70 minute delay and got paid zero for it while my colleagues a few gates down at KA also going to Beijing picked up nearly an hourís overtime.
Usually when the company is utilising divide and conquer tactics itís throwing a bone to KA while big brother gets nothing. Iím slowly sorting my kids fees for University, pity Iím not getting them paid for.

MC


70 minutes is standard . Try doing a month of PEK flying, on a KA roster in summer, with 6+ hours delay. OT is savaged and you are on a rolling minimum rest and stby. Despite what you are being fed, there is nothing pleasant about a China dominant roster and KAís COS offers little protection.

In your scenario, how did a KA pilot get an extra hour OT? Are you fabricating or another victim of industrial and organizational psychology, that seems to present CX Pilots as the smartest - dumbest pilots in the industry !

If our contract and flying is so good push for integration ? And again, please PM me your last 3 years of tax returns and we can compare apples and oranges.

The only way a KA pilot would get more OT than you, in your scenario, is a landing on the western most runways and a single engine taxi.









Last edited by Gnadenburg; 1st Jul 2018 at 14:10.
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 19:28
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20
Cool

Gnadenburg,

You seem to delight in turning every thread into a CX/KA p!ss!ng contest. We are not competing, so perhaps it's time to give it a rest.

Most CX pilots don't understand your COS and you sure don't understand ours. The mere fact you asked to see an anonymous poster's tax returns indicates how out of touch you are. Firstly, these posters may or may not be CX pilots and secondly, if you had a clue about CX you would know that someone's earnings will vary wildly depending as to their fleet. To carry on your logic, you won't be comparing apples to oranges, you will be comparing apples to mandarins, to oranges to grapefruit.

However, irrespective if you work for CX or KA, we all get the occasional un-lubed pineapple and that's what should unite us all!!
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 20:38
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,796
Liam

There is no delight. I actually feel threatened by the ignorant swipes and references by CX staff to the ďsuperiorĒ COS at KA. My last two rebuttals were of two CX pilots who had made blatantly incorrect comments that fuel a dangerous ignorance. Have a re-read please !

A few weeks ago an earlier company approach, for what I viewed was COS tampering, was oddly withdrawn due the negative potential reaction of CX pilots . Whichever way you look at it, itís another avenue of attack of playing off envy of one pilot group of another - the fuel being the disinformation like whatís seen here on PPRuNe.

The PM request of tax returns was rhetorical . Itís a statement of what we all know. There are elements of each pilot group doing better then others and COS comparisons are impossible. That said, watch the disinformation sprayed by management, to sponsor the industrial envy that triggers a human satisfaction of feeling better off than the others. Net result is we all get screwed which we seem to mutually agree upon.
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