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FG VHHH 16th

Old 16th Mar 2018, 04:53
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FG VHHH 16th

So which flights decided that it was ok for discretion.

Apparently 6 diversions this morning.

Will we ever have a spine...
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 04:57
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at what point do we name and shame and will the union do something about it instead of just sending reminders
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 06:20
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At least give a hint of the flights, and the adults amongst us can check the actual times and confirm whether there's any untoward assistance or not....
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 07:21
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Looks like these morons forgot about the recent emails re ARAP and 13th month.

Next Wednesday the DFO will tell us that the two SO crew compliment is just working fine.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 10:16
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Any 2 SO flights able to divert and make it back?
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 10:48
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748 it appears....😡
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 10:52
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Originally Posted by scavengepump View Post
748 it appears....😡
nail in the coffin
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 11:39
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But hey I'm sure they wearing their red lanyards proudly... what a joke.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 13:26
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Originally Posted by Dragon69 View Post
But hey I'm sure they wearing their red lanyards proudly... what a joke.
...and rock up 20 mins early for their flights

Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 16th Mar 2018 at 14:22.
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Old 16th Mar 2018, 17:32
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Yep, well letís put in a motion with the AOA to make captainís discretion part of contract compliance.
This way you have clarity on that issue.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 02:32
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Yes, but cd is never even hinted at for being part of cc. Something they could easily do with plausible deniability.
I think the reason for not doing so is that they are not on that plane on that day with all the facts as the captain has them and makes his/her decision.

I seem to recall a recent PPRuNe bollocking of of a captain who decided to use discretion to push to HKG, after a divertion due to a death of an infant. Perfect example, you had to have been there to understand.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 08:38
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The two second officer flights would have in a better position regarding max duty. However, the 3 man crew out of LHR must have been well in to discretion even if they pretended to have had foresight and burnt out the 3rd member enroute.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 11:20
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The use of Commanders discretion, or not, remains unquestioned by the company. Why do you muppets think the AOA should be held in a different light and have the right to ban the use of such. Discretion remains a choice of a professional pilot and any leaning by either party to this industrial dispute devalues the profession.
Signed
FW
Long time HKAOA member
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 12:01
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The company sets patterns based at the extreem of FTL limits knowing we'll go the extra mile to get it home if needed.

That was because both parties respected each other in the times when CX was great and expanding.

As said numerous times those days ended circa '94.

CX has nothing to lose when we are professional, shame they aren't.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 16:26
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Expel the Capt's from AOA.

or fail.

Simple.

One cannot with collaborators.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 18:07
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Originally Posted by FreemaninHK View Post
Expel the Capt's from AOA.

or fail.

Simple.

One cannot with collaborators.
Expel the Captís what? Would have been a good post if done before the 10th beer!

Creeping CC - when was it decided to include CD? Can we have a list of what you keyboard warriors want to include next, or can we just stick to the AOA website, policy and not publicise whatís bunch of [email protected] we have become.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 00:15
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Originally Posted by GICASI2 View Post
Expel the Captís what? Would have been a good post if done before the 10th beer!

Creeping CC - when was it decided to include CD? Can we have a list of what you keyboard warriors want to include next, or can we just stick to the AOA website, policy and not publicise whatís bunch of [email protected] we have become.
Itís not part of cc. Just a bunch of keyboard warriors stirring the pot.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 00:56
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Calm down about all this professionalism, CD, 2SO crews, max FTL rostering etc.
We are run (not led) by accountants.
When they do the cost benefit analysis on these events, they factor in an increased rate of diversion and recovery activity.
The accountants expect, and have budgeted for, a predicted number of diversions/recoveries. If you divert and decide to fight on through fatigue and/or use CD then all you are doing is taking ALL of the risk so that the account will end up under budget and trigger a bigger bonus!
If you call it a day after your rostered and planned duty, that included a diversion, then you are just operating to budget and as expected by the accountants.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 01:11
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Originally Posted by fire wall View Post
Discretion remains a choice of a professional pilot and any leaning by either party to this industrial dispute devalues the profession.
Signed
FW
Long time HKAOA member
Haha, had to laugh. You think putting people's lives at risk by extending Max FDP is "PROFESSIONAL"? The majority of people that use CD do it because they don't have the balls to park the airplane, so it's out of fear rather than out of professional choice. Who do you think is going to be crucified if something happens while you are in CD? If you really want to be professional about this, political issues aside, you would have to be stupid to ever use CD, all you're doing is putting culpability out of the company's hands and onto yours.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 02:01
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RQ response

I would have loved to have heard the response from the RQ on the 2 flights with 2 SOs when the captain said he will be using discretion... I know what I would of said.
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