PPRuNe Forums


Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th Jan 2018, 01:24   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,428
They do every few months, but somehow the names of those who have left, retired, or even died stay on the list for months, sometimes for years. Truly confusing...

Last edited by cxorcist; 6th Jan 2018 at 05:29. Reason: Previous came across differently than intention
cxorcist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th Jan 2018, 03:03   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: U/S
Posts: 291
That’s absolutely disgraceful.
Average Fool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th Jan 2018, 05:54   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,375
I suppose that is the only way CX can crew the flights: with imaginary pilots. They had better start getting used to that situation...
Trafalgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th Jan 2018, 13:05   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
They do every few months, but somehow the names of those who have left, retired, or even died stay on the list for months, sometimes for years. Truly confusing...
And perhaps intentionally so ?

It might not be in their best interest to document attrition if it's happening as described anecdotally. Still, it'd be informative to see exactly what's happening.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th Jan 2018, 21:58   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a jet that's not so shiny anymore.
Posts: 1,301
There are a couple of threads on the AOA fora which are attempting to quantify attrition.
Captain Dart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th Jan 2018, 00:19   #26 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home.
Posts: 84
yeah, well, i am gone and 2 more guys junior to me are working where I am. One in my class the other joined about 2 months later.

we were 2004, 2006, 2007 CX hires. I was cat A'd for command but bailed out.

When I joined there were 4 of us, two left, myself and another who is now flying in the UK.

Last edited by RusCo; 7th Jan 2018 at 00:30.
RusCo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2018, 01:15   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: new york
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
If a casual observer may ask, does CX publish a seniority list at regular intervals that would allow documenting the net size of the pilot group over time ? Much is being said about people leaving so it'd be interesting to see the results.
As another casual observer this sounds like a really useful metric.

Their contract media specialist and industry finance analyst undoubtedly find it really useful in creating stories for their respective audiences.

No doubt the union have set up a simple database and invited members to submit names and track it.

Last edited by sptraveller; 10th Jan 2018 at 01:42.
sptraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:04   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by sptraveller View Post
As another casual observer this sounds like a really useful metric.
It IS a very useful metric, indeed.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:21   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 485
It can be calculated from the annual report - page23

2015 number of staff 26,824. % cockpit crew 14.2 so 3,809 crew (CX & KA)
2016, 26,674, % crew 14.6 so 3,894 crew, gain of 85 crew

Block hours (page 112) from 823,000 to 826,000

Crew grew by 2.2%
Block hours by 0.4%
Block hours/ crew from 216 to 212, so reduction of 1.9%

Page 25 of the annual report - CX & KA recruited "around" 240 pilots (230 CX, 10 KA)

So attrition rate was 155 crew, or 4% (includes retirements)

However, it also says that 85 cadets graduated. If these are not included in the 240 pilots recruited (but I would think they are) that bumps attrition up to 6%

Last edited by Freehills; 10th Jan 2018 at 09:38.
Freehills is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2018, 01:01   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: new york
Posts: 65
Having read the 2016 final report I agree your conclusions and in my own read prefer the 6% turnover number.

It seems relatively modest.

Doesn't look like we will have a 2017 report until mid March.

If I were running the union or even just a member, I would still want my own statistics.

Last edited by sptraveller; 11th Jan 2018 at 01:15.
sptraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2018, 11:56   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by sptraveller View Post
...in my own read prefer the 6% turnover number.

It seems relatively modest.
It certainly is. I expected to see a much larger number based on what appear to be the circumstances at CX.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2018, 14:40   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 62
Posts: 652
There is more than enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that CC has been calling many of those who have left the building. Could you please do .....
Seems the list is more than a little outdated. BY mid-2018 they will be hoovering the sim centre for live bodies.
VR-HFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2018, 17:31   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 307
The two FO's on my flight this past week are both leaving in the coming months. One to Europe, the other to Aus. Good luck to them both. Interestingly, they each told me that they were both informed at their respective interviews that the recruiters were 'surprised' at how many CX pilots they have had applying. The FO from europe told me that 3 CX FO's and SO's were being interviewed that week by the same airline he had joined. Another comment worth sharing: they both told me THE main reason they were leaving was due to a complete lack of TRUST and FAITH in management, and that they had NO confidence in risking their careers with CX. And they both told me that nothing would change their minds at this point. In one case he had already sent his wife home to start a new job herself.

That info is from ONE flight. I can recite similar conversations on many, many flights over the past 6-12 months. This snowball is now gathering speed as it rolls downhill. It will only stop when it smashes CX's planning department into little pieces.
mngmt mole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2018, 19:54   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,428
I can second this with similar conversations on my flights. It seems CX has found the bottom, finally. Expats are only willing to stay in HK on B scale if housing is included. Cadets are figuring out rapidly that living in HK on HKPA is not worth staying for long term. Additionally, trust in this management team is almost nonexistent.

So which path will CX choose? Further self destruction on the current course OR listening to pilots and acknowledging that bases are the only effective way to save on crew costs and simultaneously keep the masses from leaving. Tick-tock, tick-tock...
cxorcist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2018, 05:32   #35 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6
Landed this morning from Europe. The other FO and SO are both making plans to leave. One of them has already interviewed, the other applied to 3 airlines. I don't think management have any idea of the tsunami of resignations about to hit them. The FO in question said that 6 CX FO's have already been offered course dates by the airline.
Lions Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2018, 08:24   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 136
Cxorcist,
You have been here long enough to know the answer to that question ,and it doesnít involve talking to the pilots
joblow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2018, 15:08   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
Posts: 118
Same thing on a recent flight:
Fo and SO leaving
So back to Oz Fo stays in Asia
Cx is on a slippery slope with their crew
positionalpor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 03:34   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 33
Same thing happening in KA. Six resignations over the last couple of weeks I hear. HKA, Emirates, Jet 2, corporate.
Dragon Pacific is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 15:07   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 112
Heard it was 8 Captains in one big hit/walkin at KA....

As for the figures of 6 % attrition seems small......but you go back in time and who would have thought even that number would exist ever at CX....plus its gathering steam.....thats only who has left not who is in the process of trying to get out and from my flights its always at least 1 if not more
Scoreboard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2018, 16:23   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,428
Perhaps the CX/KA managers donít care because their remit is to lower costs, consequences be damned. If they arenít going to be held accountable for increased attrition, why should they care? Theyíll be gone in a couple years anyways, with their bonuses firmly banked.

Again, I think the greatest failure as it pertains to CX/KA is at Swire in the UK. Apparently, short term management style is still in vogue. You would think looming pilot shortages and competition threats from the likes of HKA would make them think twice, but obviously not. So on we all march towards the proverbial cliff of airline graveyards.
cxorcist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:11.


© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1