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Thank you RH, AT et al

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Thank you RH, AT et al

Old 19th Dec 2017, 16:45
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Meh....there are sage words on both sides (and including Traf's post in this). Gratitude for what you have and have done is important. And it's always a very very bad idea to berate others.

BUT

At some point you'll have to (honestly) answer the question of "Why are you here ? " Fabricated, vague, or dodging answers aren't right there either nor is trying to be someone you are not. Nor is making up a 'good sounding' reason why you jumped ship that is disingenuous.

Problem is the 'deal' changed and the goalposts were moved under effectively imposed conditions. Again and again.

The reality of the matter is most people DID enjoy a good run (and should be exceedingly grateful for this) but as of late the place seems to be falling off a cliff (or has fallen off a cliff). And given the present vector and strategy hope for change isn't very likely. There COULD be a drastic epiphany but I see this as unlikely. And nothing one can realistically do on a working level is likely to have an impact to fix this.

There is probably a decent way to give some thought and frame this into a well thought out and honest answer. But I'd expect the question and wouldn't lie about it.
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Old 19th Dec 2017, 21:46
  #42 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I encourage everyone to have a careful read of the GMA's letter to the HKAOA, issued on the 15th December. It is quite apparent that not a single thing said on Yammer has been absorbed or understood. It is also apparent that they are intent on pushing ahead with the attacks on the pilot group. That being said, I ask every pilot in this company; what action are you personally going to take to send a message back to the management, who obviously haven't understood that the landscape in the industry has changed. If you sit back and do NOTHING, then you will end up with a permanently reduced contract and effectively worthless and frustrating career (practically, you won't have a 'career'). The only option is to hit back hard, and to do so now. If you can't have the courage to do your bit to help the collective good, then please don't whine to me or anyone for that matter come the new year when you wake up to the reality that the likes of AT and DP have planned for you. They are waiting to see what happens, and if we keep going to work as scheduled, you have effectively told them that any outrage will be accepted (the 13th month insult was designed to test our resolve and response. How many of my fellow Captains have called in sick since?). Either you wake up to the imminent threat that is confronting you, or accept everything that is coming like a mouse. Time to choose.
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Old 19th Dec 2017, 21:52
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 398
We spend countless hours drivelling on about the multitude of issues, both current and past, as well as the appalling dishonesty and ruthlessness shown by the company.
How about talking about some affirmative action just for the sake of changing the topic?
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Old 19th Dec 2017, 22:59
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Whatever they are, these are NOT stupid people. IMHO (and my personal impressions from experience) it's not a matter of not understanding but willfully ignoring and pretending not to understand. The belief that if you hold your position long enough--no matter what it is--that it will become reality.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 00:06
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CYYZ
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
If you sit back and do NOTHING, then you will end up with a permanently reduced contract and effectively worthless and frustrating career (practically, you won't have a 'career'). The only option is to hit back hard, and to do so now. If you can't have the courage to do your bit to help the collective good, then please don't whine to me or anyone for that matter come the new year when you wake up to the reality that the likes of AT and DP have planned for you... How many of my fellow Captains have called in sick since?). Either you wake up to the imminent threat that is confronting you, or accept everything that is coming like a mouse. Time to choose.
Those without backbones aspire to move into management and earn the big bucks. Hence, no one rocks the boat.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 02:22
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 154
Sea Eggs
Unless they make it to general manager level the bucks aren't that big. Sure all the FOP 3rd floor guys will receive a nice little cheque ( off the books ) this Xmas and the GM's will get at least HKD1m each but for that they go to work everyday ( not weekends of course ) knowing that they have lost the respect of every fellow pilot in the company and beyond. Some will aspire to this pushed on by their ambitious spouses and from my experience most prefer the office to the flight deck where their performances rarely meet the now defunct "cathay standard". The office is the perfect refuge where they can arrange their check flights to be done by a fellow manager to ensure they pass.

The solution for CX for a future is to bring in professional management at the highest level and to appoint FOP managers who will protect the aircrew and the section. What we have now are Swire accountants/managers at senior level placed in CX for a few years and FOP managers who have zero man management skills or training and answer to upstairs rather than defend ( in an operational sense, not industrial ) the pilots on the flight deck.

Time to Win should really read Time to Change .............the whole bloody lot of them.

Last edited by checklistcomplete; 20th Dec 2017 at 02:23. Reason: spelling error
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 05:14
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Originally Posted by quadspeed View Post
Worst advice ever. Speak foul of your previous employer and you'll be the problem, not them. Cathay pilots have had an incredible good run, and if the money is no longer worth the suffering then so be it. But do not bemoan the nature of the beast that's been filling your coffers for the past decade or two. You knew, and they know, the deal that you signed.
Quadspeed

you are totally out of date. employers know EXACTLY what is going on and want honesty from a prospective employee. they also want to make sure they are not employing a weak minded yes man/woman an honest answer to the effect CX rescinded your original contract without consultation would suffice i think.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 05:18
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
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PS at my interview the panel chairman was ex CX and asked me " is that still going on ?"
The big players know whats what. be honest and your skills will get you through and into a better company. Mine did and I am off in Feb after CX pays for my knee op and outstanding 3 weeks leave from 2017 and I will have a brand new CX uniform to hand back too.
Park the Jets.

Last edited by checklistcomplete; 20th Dec 2017 at 05:19. Reason: spelling
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 05:33
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
We should start a petition saying that we have lost confidence in Anna and the Parrot in fixing the issuse that they have created in the first place.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 06:57
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by checklistcomplete View Post
Quadspeed

you are totally out of date. employers know EXACTLY what is going on and want honesty from a prospective employee. they also want to make sure they are not employing a weak minded yes man/woman an honest answer to the effect CX rescinded your original contract without consultation would suffice i think.
Well, seeing you've changed your position from "describe all of CX/Swire's failings" to "CX rescinded your original contract without consultation" I don't see the need for further rebuttals.

European and North American airlines know nothing of Swire nor Cathay except that they fired a bunch of pilots in a industrial dispute some years ago. On this, I can assure you I am completely up to date.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 08:44
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
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CX pilots have been under attack by management for more than 2 decades. Time to Leave Us Alone!
As the weary pilots of Australia's Qantas are just beginning to realise, the war was never over; reduction of the labour unit cost(pilot) has no end.

A foreign subsidiary is being integrated into domestic 737 operations, with existing NZD terms and conditions to apply. The unions are too busy 'consulting'..Another subsidiary to get a new shiny A320. Sold to the weakened pilots as 'efficiency' the drum beats on. If you worked in the corporate sphere you would hear all the MBA mouth the same thing; cut, cut, cut..What it is they cut they do not know.

They will never leave you alone, their model knows no other way.
The only thing to change it are the demographics. For the first time in decades IR/HR are on the wrong side of the bet.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 15:11
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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An "Understated" article - Just say NO

Is America's airline industry headed for a major pilot shortage? | Fox Business

Walking through major US airports this month you now see 20' X 30' recruitment advertisements for Flight Crew at various airlines including the amounts they will pay for signing bonuses

"Market Forces" ?

"Time to Leave"

Last edited by Flex88; 20th Dec 2017 at 17:23.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 16:08
  #53 (permalink)  
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The tide has well and truly turned. If you have the chance of an offer back home, with a solid career prospect, TAKE IT. This lot will ruin and break you, and leave not only you but your family unsettled, unhappy and miserable. It is plainly not worth it. It's your life and career, and you only have one. Don't waste it working for the most hypocritical and self-serving group of management in the industry.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 22:19
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by Frogman1484 View Post
We should start a petition saying that we have lost confidence in Anna and the Parrot in fixing the issuse that they have created in the first place.
Wondered why it took this long. Pilots always think management is going to be replaced by someone who loves them and gives them everything they want. Been going on since 94, and I see a bunch of newbies pushing for AT to go as a new DFO will apparently be sympathetic.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 23:52
  #55 (permalink)  
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Well, you would know MC. You are involved with that level of management (how do you face yourself in the mornings...). You are correct. Without a serious disruption in the operation, you and your immoral brothers and sisters will never turn from your path of destruction. Whether or not we continue to put up with it is being resolved as we speak. I have faith in my colleagues, and most of us realise that only deliberate action against the evil you represent is the only way forward.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 01:51
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Pole
Posts: 52
Morning Coffee,

I have flown with a number of "management pilot types" over the years at CX and I have found most if not all were very qualified to be in the seat they earned. To say otherwise is a bit slanderous, no? From RH, NM, IW, etc. They were all great on the flight deck. I find no basis for your previous comments, regardless of industrial relations.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 02:08
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
GL is leaving the Boeing office and is off to AHK apparently.

Bring on the next one, SB I'm betting.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 03:33
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 410
Sounds like GL will be replacing PE as their DFO, then.

He will probably do a good job, I expect.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 05:05
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 154
GL to AHK is really a slap in the face. Being sent out to grass more likely to run a flying club. GL RIP.

Jobs for the boys till 65.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 06:26
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
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Mach.88

Really ? You in C&T ? Ever wondered why those 3rd floor boys always do eachothers checks.
Wake up FFS.
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