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Thank you RH, AT et al

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Thank you RH, AT et al

Old 14th Dec 2017, 12:28
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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Thank you RH, AT et al

Dear Senior Management,

Initially we were shocked, then appalled, then just basically numb. It was incomprehensible how people who are generally considered somewhat intelligent could issue a policy decision so lacking in common sense, awareness of the current labour situation and appreciation of the consequences. The decision to withhold any payment from just the Captains of the airline could not be explained by anything other than spite. Of course I, and every other Captain in the airline now have a complete understanding of the type of management we labour under, and the utter contempt and disrespect that you hold us in.

However, on further contemplation, we have come to realise that we should instead be thanking you. Your actions have accomplished more for pilot unity in the airline than any number of AOA Focus nights, or even PPRuNe. Further, you have enabled every pilot in this airline to find the courage to finally speak truth to power, and to condemn you and your colleagues as 'managers' and not 'leaders'. For most of us, that distinction is more damning than you have the intellectual capacity to understand.

You have also helped coalesce the resolve of hundreds of pilots who may have been sitting on the fence as it pertains to their decision to leave CX. I can assure you from 'front line' evidence, that number is catastrophic for this airline. You have also assured that the operational numbers that you and your fellow bean counters pour over each day are going to start looking quite alarming. You have alienated and angered, insulted and disrespected the very people who make dozens of operational decisions every single day they are in the cockpit: the Captains. You have taken money from me, my colleagues, our families and our futures. It isn't the amount, but the principle. And don't think we have forgotten the last time you singled out the Captains, when you decided to spitefully withhold 10% of our SLS contribution...why, because you just felt like damn well doing so.

I am out $35K (actually more like $200K, the full 13th month). I can assure you that in many, many subtle and unseen ways, that money will bleed away, trip after trip, week after week, month after month. The full cost will be FAR in excess of the $35K that you withheld just because you simply don't like us. Message received. Reply to follow.

Even when you had the opportunity to 'clarify' in a positive way your missteps, you chose to 'double down' and further alienate the people bravely and eloquently confronting you by name on Yammer. CX management, never missing the opportunity to miss an opportunity. You can't defend the indefensible, but of course you tried. That is because you and your colleagues are blind to what has just happened, and how it will redirect the 'future' of this airline in ways you can't even begin to comprehend.

Thank you Senior Management. You have allowed every pilot in this company to focus on the task at hand. We now know we are in a war, and at least we can now fight it accordingly, with clear heads and an even clearer purpose. We know you don't like us, don't respect us. That's finally settled. I suppose in closing, the aspect we are most amazed about is not that you did what you did, but that you thought you could do so without it being recognised for what it is, spite. And even more confounding, is that you seem to be 'surprised' by the reaction (over 600 Yammer posts and counting). Perhaps you can be somewhat introspective and ponder the arrogance that led to that outcome. We somehow doubt you have that ability however.

Again, from all the aircrew, thank you, and happy holidays.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 14th Dec 2017 at 15:36.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 13:08
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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I echo every word. It amazes me to read the pathetic, ponderous replies by our managers on Yammer, who clearly don't have a single clue as to what their entire aircrew body feels or is concerned about. They seem hell bent on cutting costs, no matter what it costs them (ironic I know). Well, they will reap what they sow. This airline is in a nose dive and I think it is now irrecoverable. All that will be left is wreckage. Well done CX management. :/
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 13:30
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
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I completely agree, much has been made clear this past week. It does indeed feel like a psychological turning point.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 13:45
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kowloon
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Thumbs up

Does AT get fired if her strategies now cost the company to suffer?
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 15:14
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hasn’t she already? I’m thinking RPs and three-man Europe. Was it really worth ripping up the agreement and having all this industrial unrest?

Last edited by cxorcist; 14th Dec 2017 at 17:52.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 15:23
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Join Date: May 2017
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Spot on Trafalgar. Spot on.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 15:43
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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For years I have tried to join CX and as every year passes (yep, years of failure trying to join), I carefully notice my potential terms and conditions erode with the very airline I wish to pursue a career with, from an outside point of vue, it is heart breaking to see what is happening to what was once a great airline.

I hope you all get together and make 2017/18 count as it appears the industry has never required as many pilots as it currently does, you are no longer as easily replaceable as were the case perhaps just 4 years ago. A fact management seem to be forgetting.
I wish all of CX, and potentially KA crew in the near future, the very best as it appears 'd-day' is soon arriving at the company.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 15:52
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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I thought you guys were all up for parking jets? Instead you all got pine appled!
add 10% more fuel to each trip... what you got to lose?
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 18:30
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Schweizer. Thank you for your consideration. Best regards.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 18:53
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Join Date: May 2007
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Many here have been holding on to a notion of hope, ala the rebels in the Star Wars series.
Hope that the Swires will realise the unsustainable nature of their actions and choose to respect their pilots.
Hope that Swires will engage in meaningful negotiations.
Hope that the pendulum has reached its maximum amplitude and is about to swing back.

HOPE IS LOST.

Whether you are the recently upgraded CN or the BTC, whether you are the most staunch supporter of contract compliance or the self serving G day worker, whether you have a minimal unfit record or are in AMP stage 3, whether you submit ASR(F) or just use discretion and finish the duty, whether you RETI or add a TFT........ the Swires do not care.

EVERY CN HAS BEEN TREATED AS THE SAME AND AFFORDED ZERO RESPECT AND GRATITUDE.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 19:06
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Originally Posted by schweizer2 View Post
For years I have tried to join CX and as every year passes (yep, years of failure trying to join), I carefully notice my potential terms and conditions erode with the very airline I wish to pursue a career with, from an outside point of vue, it is heart breaking to see what is happening to what was once a great airline.

I hope you all get together and make 2017/18 count as it appears the industry has never required as many pilots as it currently does, you are no longer as easily replaceable as were the case perhaps just 4 years ago. A fact management seem to be forgetting.
I wish all of CX, and potentially KA crew in the near future, the very best as it appears 'd-day' is soon arriving at the company.
Like Traf said, thanks for the consideration.

IMHO this isn't the place it was. If even only a few years ago.

As I get older I kinda see things in my life working out the way they should; not necessarily as I'd want them to or plan them. The key for me is in making the most of the time in my life--it's the journey that counts. And in devoting that time toward things that matter.

I had several good friends in a similar boat as yours; they had applied (in the past) and were interested but either other opportunities came along or they weren't selected. Looking back, I am grateful this happened in that I would hate to have been an influence toward someone selecting a path that hurt them or did not serve them well. Although I did present them with the best facts that I knew about at the time.

CX I believe DID enjoy a reputation of being a good career choice in years past--really high up there and a worthy place for ones' time, talent, and professional satisfaction/development. And folks dedicated significant portions of their life TO making things work and being a part of it. Sadly, I think -- as the bartender in Fargo said "This ain't that kind of place" anymore.

So, if I were you I'd be happy you are where you are and I wish you the best of luck in going forward.
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 19:31
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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@Traf Thank you

@Shep, thank you for your words of encouragement. Having grown up in HK, I've always had the urge to return home. As we all know, home will always be home.
I have recently achieved a huge career milestone after trying to break into the industry for the last 10-ish years. With this, I have decided that I will give myself one last attempt to make it through the CX selection process and endure the possibility of failure one last time. At some point I have to hit the un-pause button and actually live my life!
I have friends who have joined via the SO programme and have heard them constantly say they are just there for the hours before going back to their own country, which does hurt quite a lot when all I have tried to do is return to my own country but have been faced with rejection after rejection. (unfortunately an embarrassing amount of times...)

Once again, good luck to you all in CX and I eagerly await to hear of any progress.

EDIT: I should also mention, thanks to the rejection of CX, I have experienced an amazing career to date trying to break into the industry. Some flying that I will never again experience in the "big shiny jet"! An experience I will always be grateful for and will never forget!
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 19:36
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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You sound like the type of person I would enjoy flying with. Don’t despair. Your sincerity will eventually win the day for you .
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 20:02
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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DFO. GMA don’t have a clue about aviation.....problems cannot be solved with them...simple
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 20:27
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Nice letter Trafalgar - do you actually send it to the grown ups, or just put it on here and hope the world will change?
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Old 14th Dec 2017, 21:05
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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Don't Forget

Sister ( 100% absorbed) Airline Capt's get 13th Month!
If I am correct, Sister Airline "STILL" do not pay tax on Housing Assistance!

Started with "Commitment Days" 1993 and and been getting kicked in the gonads ever since..
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 00:07
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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FFS Flex, pull your bloody head in!
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 06:05
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
I am out $35K (actually more like $200K, the full 13th month). I can assure you that in many, many subtle and unseen ways, that money will bleed away, trip after trip, week after week, month after month. The full cost will be FAR in excess of the $35K that you withheld just because you simply don't like us. Message received. Reply to follow.
US$365/hr?
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 06:14
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Hard to be taken seriously when we SHOUT BS!
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 07:53
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: HK
Posts: 68
PARK THE JETS

It's all Hedgehog will understand. His weak ass reply on Yammer proof of that.
Owen, Thompson, et al (like that hedgehog.. just like you) need to be dealt with.
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