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HKAOA -losing the plot?

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HKAOA -losing the plot?

Old 22nd Nov 2017, 14:22
  #1 (permalink)  
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HKAOA -losing the plot?

If the company "victimised" an individual or group of individuals and fired them for carrying out the reasonable actions of the HKAOA, the one and only response is strike. 6 months pay as compensation from your brother and sisters in the AOA .. FFS.... I am embarrassed....we are inviting trouble!!

Come on Ladies and Gents, this is Unionism 101. Taken to the extreme, if the company fired the GC, our only course of action has to be to not show up to work the next day, then the next and so on until they are reinstated. What are we suggesting, we pay the GC six months salary, pat them on the back, a round of beers, some rousing speeches wishing them well in their future careers and then ask for new volunteers to form a new GC? Dont be surprised if nobody volunteers.

This is a basic fundamental of being a union.... Protect your volunteers, because if you don't you won't have a Union for much longer.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 14:41
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Wrong. The pay compensation is to give the rank and file the balls to actually go ahead with the strike without fear of personal inimidation/sacking for sprurious reasons by our caring employer. Think 49ers.

I think this is a step in the right direction, and about time and all.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 15:33
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If you read the basic law article 27 states
HK residents shall have freedom of speech , of the press and of publication. Freedom of association , of assembly of procession and of demonstration and of the right and freedom to form and join trade unions and to strike
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 15:44
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Liam,

Think you missed the point. Not just for GC members but for all and covering trumped up dismissals for no declared reason.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 17:44
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Employee has the freedom to strike and employer the freedom to fire.

Not worth much I'm afraid.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 19:13
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I hope we all still appreciate that the Swine hierarchy is still the same vindictive narcissistic inbred our way our the highway establishment it was back in Ď01 during the firings of the Ď49ers, nothing much has changed.
Itís still got the same kronies trying to pull the same ole BS on us.
They can fire whom they like but they will only be making matters worse and worse , and if they have any inkling how low moral is right now and how many of the troops will just go anyway ....

Huge credit to the union and the proposal and the proposers 👍
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 19:48
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The way I see it, CX has two choices. They can turn a once proud airline into a boutique carrier with local only pilots while giving away massive market share to HKA; OR they can treat their pilots with respect and retain employees that allow CX to compete for the market in HK.

Knowing CX as I do from my experience here, they will try to find a middle ground. They wonít really treat employees well at all, but they wonít default to being a boutique carrier either. They will continue to sacrifice market share to other carriers all while pretending to compete and treat their employees well. The Big Lie will continue. They will pretend to pay us, and we will pretend to work. Morale will continue to crater. CX will die a slow death, as it is already. Air China and others will pick at the carcus years from now, and those whom have left already will have looked all the wiser.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 22:28
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Busyb,

I haven't missed the point. I understand this applies to all members. I think you missed my comment about taking it to the extreme and I used the most extreme example I could think of....the company sacking the GC.

Those quoting the law are deluding themselves, nobody will be fired for Union Activities. They will be given three months pay in lieu of notice for "no particular reason", or "loss of confidence". That's why the HKAOA's proposal may look good, but is actually nonsense;

1. It will never trigger, because nobody will be fired for Union Activities; they will be fired for other "grey" stuff.
2. The HKAOA doesn't have the money to fund anything other than a handful of sackings. It's a hollow commitment.
3. It signals to the Company and your fellow members that we won't even go on strike if they fired our GC. Why then should they be scared of cutting Housing or not paying a fair HKPA Allowance.

Frankly, I am embarrassed by anyone promoting this as a step in the right direction. ....Union 101...

Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 23rd Nov 2017 at 03:44.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 00:08
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Liam, slow down. It’s chess, not wack-a-mole.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 03:40
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Raven and Worriedpilot,

Have a read of my posts and take some time to think very carefully about what I am saying and what I am not saying. Take the time to dial down the hysteria and dial up some fortitude, decency and out right common-sense.

What I am not saying is we move to strike action as an escalation of CC/TB. That's a separate discussion. What I am saying is the termination of a member (or members) by management, as part of what the GC believes to be an industrial escalation by management, must be met by one action only;- strike.

I am not saying this as someone desperate to strap on a bomb-vest and pull the handle, but someone who believes we all have a line, and the termination of our fellow members as part of management's industrial plan must sit on the "strike" side of that line. I don't care where your personal line sits, but if "industrial" terminations doesn't sit within the "strike" zone, then;

1. You lack decency. Paying someone 6 months salary may easy your conscience but it doesn't ease mine.
2. You lack common sense. Unless the company knows very, very bad things will happen if they move to terminations, you are inviting them to take that action. We must have a credible deterent. This motion in no way deters management, in fact it probably does the opposite. It clearly signals to them that if they fire 49 of our colleagues again, our response will be to show up to work the next morning and bankrupt the HKAOA in the afternoon;- Result!!! Aren't we just inviting it, where's the deterrent?
3. You lack a spine.

I am embarrassed that the GC is even proposing this and anyone believing this is a step in the right direction needs to step outside and have a word with themselves.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 04:20
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Liam, I agree with you, but as someone else pointed out, we have an association with lots of members, but with very few union men. That's the sad truth!

The AoA are aware of this, and to mention the word strike in a motion this early is going to have all the scaredy cats running to the nearest trash bin. Give it time, let the momentum build. Ultimately I'm sure the motion will revised to what you're rightfully suggesting.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 04:25
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Anyone understand Motion 3?

For those who think I am crazed uni-bomber, then perhaps you will freak out when you read Motion 3.

Now I have read Motion 3 repeatedly and I can only assume it's written by someone who has English as a second language and antipodean as their first. I think it is authorising the Chairman to lead us into any Industrial Action he sees fit. He doesn't require a GC vote and he doesn't require a membership. It's a completely blank cheque.

Dangerous stuff......

Anyone read it differently?
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 05:39
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Liam,
He is saying that the members of the HKAOA lack a spine. Thatís how I read it.
He is right about the spine part. Thatís why we find ourselves here today. Talking about cuts when every first rate airline in our home countries are getting big raises.

Last edited by DropKnee; 23rd Nov 2017 at 16:20.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 05:42
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Perhaps it is finally the HKAOA-writing the plot?
About time we saw some leadership and proactive activity.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 19:17
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A few comment from the side line.

In the midst of the biggest shortage of pilots ever, Your company declare that they are lowering You housing allowance and this in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.
The next day You all show up for work and Your checkers and trainers keep doing what they are doing.
And now You are surprised that they are still coming at You?
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 22:10
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Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
For those who think I am crazed uni-bomber, then perhaps you will freak out when you read Motion 3.

Now I have read Motion 3 repeatedly and I can only assume it's written by someone who has English as a second language and antipodean as their first. I think it is authorising the Chairman to lead us into any Industrial Action he sees fit. He doesn't require a GC vote and he doesn't require a membership. It's a completely blank cheque.

Dangerous stuff......

Anyone read it differently?
Are you familiar with the Charge of the Light Brigade....
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 23:11
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Fortunately MC, we don’t have the ę 600 Ľ for the charge and ensuing massacre.
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 23:12
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mc

Are you familiar with the 20th Maine at Little Round Top ?
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 23:59
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
CX will die a slow death, as it is already. Air China and others will pick at the carcus years from now, and those whom have left already will have looked all the wiser.
I think in time, it will be branded Air China HK and the changes that occur with this will be as one expects.

China hates HK, its traditions, and its people. Why wouldn't the airline be forced to be subservient to the Mainland? The only trick will be to figure out to what degree Hainan/HKA/HKE will be permitted to fill the void, ie, compete with an Air China subsidiary.
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Old 24th Nov 2017, 01:05
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I agree with the Air China takeover scenario. President Xi recently referred to the colonial shame of Hong Kong’s history. China will step in soon. The Kingboard/Qatar move is part of the strategy in a side deal made between Beijing and Doha. Unlike a thread on the AOA forum I don’t think John Swires of London are trying to talk down the share price. The opposite. When the sign or be fired contract rolls out soon the stock market will love it. Then Swires will cash out a large chunk.

Last edited by valhalla634; 24th Nov 2017 at 03:23.
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