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16th July 2017 | 23:53

#81 (permalink)

Steve the Pirate

Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 601

Likes: 0

From: Hong Kong

Not that I'm in favour of this change but wouldn't the same problem occur with the current CN, RQ, FO, SO complement if the RQ went sick at an outport? Obviously a different story if both FOs are RQ.

17th July 2017 | 00:38

#82 (permalink)

Steve the Pirate

Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 601

Likes: 0

From: Hong Kong

Agreed but don't you think that will have been part of the risk assessment? I assume there are statistics on the number of times pilots go sick at outports although, to be fair, those statistics will be based on the current, rather than proposed crewing.

17th July 2017 | 01:03

#83 (permalink)

Steve the Pirate

Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 601

Likes: 0

From: Hong Kong

Oh, I got before but ACMS has made a valid point that many RQs get sectors currently, so the inevitable question might be, what's changed? Surely those stats will be available too? Of course, I realise that there's a difference between a one-off and something that might become the norm in terms of the physiological effects.

17th July 2017 | 02:01

#84 (permalink)

cxorcist

Joined: Aug 2008

Posts: 0

Likes: 1

From: Polar Route

# Make Cathay Great Again

... far less chance of that than for America imo.

17th July 2017 | 11:07

#85 (permalink)

BlunderBus

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 401

Likes: 1

From: hongkong

So what do non RQ first officers do?

17th July 2017 | 14:21

#86 (permalink)

flyhardmo

Joined: Jan 2004

Posts: 502

Likes: 3

From: everywhere

Quote:

Oh, I got before but ACMS has made a valid point that many RQs get sectors currently, so the inevitable question might be, what's changed?

The biggest change is that of a tired RQ gets a sector, you have an F/O in the back that is way more familiar with the operation than an S/O. It is that extra pair of eyes and although stuff ups still happen with the current crew compliment, they will get worse. CX seems to think it's a good idea to manually line up those holes in the cheese.

17th July 2017 | 17:36

#87 (permalink)

BusyB

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 1,410

Likes: 0

From: HKG

It was just as bad with non RQ FO's plus an SO. I recall often refusing to do the ldg because too fatigued from wrong rest. T and B's for going out of recency!

17th July 2017 | 21:26

#88 (permalink)

BusyB

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 1,410

Likes: 0

From: HKG

Rubbish, If you don't know what rest (and how much) you will get you can't make that judgement at report.

18th July 2017 | 18:13

#89 (permalink)

BlunderBus

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 401

Likes: 1

From: hongkong

Arrived off long haul trip then min rest ..Up at 4.30am for 6am PC sim then STC calls crew control at end of debrief and given a long haul flight in 12 hours time at 11pm....really? Who else does that? Why bother with a roster?

18th July 2017 | 21:37

#90 (permalink)

betpump5

Joined: May 2009

Posts: 725

Likes: 0

From: VHHH Ocean 2D

Quote:

Why bother with a roster?

Wasn't that one of AT's first questions when she became DFO?

19th July 2017 | 01:03

#91 (permalink)

boxjockey

Joined: Oct 2005

Posts: 343

Likes: 0

From: U.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlunderBus

Did you get 1 in 7?

19th July 2017 | 10:01

#92 (permalink)

ACMS

Joined: Jun 1999

Posts: 2,997

Likes: 35

From: Oztrailia

ASR F......

19th July 2017 | 10:33

#93 (permalink)

Trafalgar

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 1,542

Likes: 5

From: London

(cough)...pick up phone...(cough)....so sorry...(cough)....i'll be there when i'm rested and don't feel like death....(cough). What is WRONG with us?

19th July 2017 | 12:31

#94 (permalink)

rhoshamboe

Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 79

Likes: 0

From: HK

Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...
Acknowledged thank you... Ring ring, Hello CC? Reporting unfit due fatigue...

How many times till they get the message? FFS don't let them take the piss.

21st July 2017 | 06:31

#95 (permalink)

Pucka

Joined: Jun 2008

Posts: 284

Likes: 1

From: Hong Kong

Not this one...if I can't give 100% due either to fatigue, health or a dose of the aztecs...then I have a cockpit free day...enough.

1st December 2017 | 11:57

#96 (permalink)

Life well tired

Joined: Dec 2017

Posts: 4

Likes: 0

From: kowloon

Two SO LRO

The NTC has been extended and the company plan to increase the number of flights where 2 S/Os are rostered. Unbelievably there have been relatively few ASR(F)s submitted by crews who have operated these trips. The ASR(F)s are the only way we can fight this.

S/Os, please, if the guy sitting next to you takes controlled rest, urge him or her to submit an ASR(F). You will be RQ soon enough, so this is your future that you are protecting.

F/Os, don't risk your licence or reputation doing sectors/landings when you are fatigued. Missed RT calls, operational mistakes or controlled rest, then file an ASR(F).

Capts, please encourage crews submit ASR(F)s for any of the above.

1st December 2017 | 21:33

#97 (permalink)

OK4Wire

Joined: Jul 2014

Posts: 435

Likes: 0

From: Hong Kong

And don't forget, Australian-based Captains are forbidden to operate with 2 SOs.

2nd December 2017 | 02:41

#98 (permalink)

Farman Biplane

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 381

Likes: 7

From: CLK

Or that the 3 man London’s were highly requested because of the long layover! Give many of them a gun and they would be able to shoot themselves in both feet.