DEFO back at CX
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Honky
This is the mother of all f### ups. Promotions delayed by the awesome training ban that, almost 2 years later, was only supposed to last a few months. Now the unsurprising and predictable result will be DEFO and some serious harm to any junior crews career progression. The icing on the cake was you got to pay for it to be enforced with your Union subs.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Likes: 65
From: FL370
Joined a year ago, but actually I'm not to worried about DEFO. It is what it is, nothing I can do as I don't meet the requirements. Even with a few 1000 hours, the largest thing I had before here was a King Air. By the time commands come it'll be senority based anyway.
The fact they'll be on a far better package for their entire career, and I'll never get close to it, is what annoys me.
The fact they'll be on a far better package for their entire career, and I'll never get close to it, is what annoys me.
Last edited by gretzky99; 20th July 2016 at 14:00.
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 333
Likes: 5
From: Earth
So now we will have SOs who will be without an upgrade for potentially 5 years and they have given up a modest pay increase now for nothing? Will the older boys in the company stand up for the SOs after many voted NO on advice they received from captains and first officers
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Honky
Rwy36
Of course not!! That has never happened in the history of the CX. Problem is there are guys who will vote no regardless of what the offer is because there are absolutely zero consequences for them. It's all the junior guys who have to do the heavy lifting. From this point on I think the AOA should waive Union fees for all junior guys if CC/TB is to continue.
Of course not!! That has never happened in the history of the CX. Problem is there are guys who will vote no regardless of what the offer is because there are absolutely zero consequences for them. It's all the junior guys who have to do the heavy lifting. From this point on I think the AOA should waive Union fees for all junior guys if CC/TB is to continue.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Keep calm and compliant on
This is unremarkable. Most pilots joined this airline as DEFOs. CX have done it during times of expansion. Last DEFO was probably back in 2008. This would have happened with or without the Training Ban.
As for joining on expat terms.... I doubt it. In fact, if they do, I will run down "the street" naked with a feather stuck up my a......
As for joining on expat terms.... I doubt it. In fact, if they do, I will run down "the street" naked with a feather stuck up my a......
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
Regardless of AOA actions, the company was ALWAYS going to go down the DEFO route eventually. The simple demographic necessity of it was screaming out to the company for the past several years. They are just using this as the time to announce it in hopes that we will turn on ourselves in the process.
Instead of blaming the AOA, realise that this is yet another example of the company's lack of sincerity. They would rather punch you in the nose yet again than find an equitable and fair settlement. They can't help themselves.
The DEFO move will NOT help them in the long run. It is not cost effective and on top of that, the cost in pilot resentment and guerilla action will render the working of the operation even less viable. Stay strong and united, THAT is what scares the company the most. It is also instructive to many of you as to why there are better employers and careers out there.
They are following down their predictable road of 'face saving', a road that will lead them nowhere.
Instead of blaming the AOA, realise that this is yet another example of the company's lack of sincerity. They would rather punch you in the nose yet again than find an equitable and fair settlement. They can't help themselves.
The DEFO move will NOT help them in the long run. It is not cost effective and on top of that, the cost in pilot resentment and guerilla action will render the working of the operation even less viable. Stay strong and united, THAT is what scares the company the most. It is also instructive to many of you as to why there are better employers and careers out there.
They are following down their predictable road of 'face saving', a road that will lead them nowhere.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Zimbabwe
Best thing that could happen to us is DEFO on expat terms.
I hope it will definitely put an end to 250h HKPA recruits.
If anything, the hkaoa should put a vote for a recruitment ban until new hires get full expat conditions.
Best thing that could happen to our LEP as well.
I hope it will definitely put an end to 250h HKPA recruits.
If anything, the hkaoa should put a vote for a recruitment ban until new hires get full expat conditions.
Best thing that could happen to our LEP as well.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Likes: 65
From: FL370
Fair question. But isn't that what the SO position is for?
Not asking for FO upgrades and pay ahead of those more qualified, but in 3-5 years when all the recent new hires are FOs how are they any different, especially given most have been expat hires?
SOs on expat terms used to be the norm too.
Not asking for FO upgrades and pay ahead of those more qualified, but in 3-5 years when all the recent new hires are FOs how are they any different, especially given most have been expat hires?
SOs on expat terms used to be the norm too.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
There's always been 3 entry levels to CX. You're in contract compliance. I'd suggest reading it.
1. DEFO - xpat conditions
2. DESO - xpat conditions
3. Cadet SO - local conditions
Any HKG based DEFO has to be given xpat conditons. Anyone who knows cx knows there won't be DEFO's. There will be cadet SO's who are offered "rapid promotions". Just like the rapid promotion captains 10 years ago. (and watch that get repeated at both CX and KA as failure rates of partially trained pilots become farcial)
BTW, we all signed contracts allowing for DEFO's and for all but 6 years of CX's 70 year history they have done so. Most pilots at Cx have enjoyed the experience of having pilots join over the top of them. At least now you still keep your seniority number.
Anyone who voted NO to the TA thinking the company responsible for the 49ers was going to fight by the Queensberry Rules shouldn't be allowed in a control seat.
1. DEFO - xpat conditions
2. DESO - xpat conditions
3. Cadet SO - local conditions
Any HKG based DEFO has to be given xpat conditons. Anyone who knows cx knows there won't be DEFO's. There will be cadet SO's who are offered "rapid promotions". Just like the rapid promotion captains 10 years ago. (and watch that get repeated at both CX and KA as failure rates of partially trained pilots become farcial)
BTW, we all signed contracts allowing for DEFO's and for all but 6 years of CX's 70 year history they have done so. Most pilots at Cx have enjoyed the experience of having pilots join over the top of them. At least now you still keep your seniority number.
Anyone who voted NO to the TA thinking the company responsible for the 49ers was going to fight by the Queensberry Rules shouldn't be allowed in a control seat.
Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 20th July 2016 at 14:55.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Likes: 65
From: FL370
The only change since 2008 is they've shoehorned every new hire into the last category as a cadet, regardless of prior experience. There are even military fast jet guys with combat tours under their belt labeled 'cadets'.