Victory is in sight
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China,
Are you B scale? If you are you sold your A scale brothers out, lowered your worth, blah blah blah.
My concern has nothing to do with the contract I signed, I'm happy with what I've got. My concern is the path we are going down because the cost outweighs the benefits.
Are you B scale? If you are you sold your A scale brothers out, lowered your worth, blah blah blah.
My concern has nothing to do with the contract I signed, I'm happy with what I've got. My concern is the path we are going down because the cost outweighs the benefits.
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No on all accounts. I stood against EVERYTHING you stand for.
If you had one minuscule amount of professional integrity both on this web site or at work you would do your reading before shooting your ignorant, pre-pubescent, arrogant and insulting mouth off. You've entered the arena from the back door well into the show and taken the cheapest seats going.... And you think that allows you the audacity to comment & criticise? Grow up.
Read previous posts before asking dumb questions that have been answered countless times before. Learn the history as to the reason why things are as they are and you might even have the balls to apologise for your attitude one day.
But I doubt it. There's no Vol 8 for integrity.
The hilarious irony is that the very same pilots you insult here are the exact same you cower down to at work due their experience and knowledge. You listen to their expertise and are guided by it. Yet here your true colours show yourself to be nothing but an unwanted fool.
The cheapest backside in a seat. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you had one minuscule amount of professional integrity both on this web site or at work you would do your reading before shooting your ignorant, pre-pubescent, arrogant and insulting mouth off. You've entered the arena from the back door well into the show and taken the cheapest seats going.... And you think that allows you the audacity to comment & criticise? Grow up.
Read previous posts before asking dumb questions that have been answered countless times before. Learn the history as to the reason why things are as they are and you might even have the balls to apologise for your attitude one day.
But I doubt it. There's no Vol 8 for integrity.
The hilarious irony is that the very same pilots you insult here are the exact same you cower down to at work due their experience and knowledge. You listen to their expertise and are guided by it. Yet here your true colours show yourself to be nothing but an unwanted fool.
The cheapest backside in a seat. Nothing more, nothing less.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 28th Apr 2016 at 10:21.
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Xwindldg,
If you are concerned about the path we have taken, you are more than welcome to leave and join HKA or HK express. I am sure that if you are happy with what you signed, you will be happy with what is on offer there as well.
For those of us who have been here long enough, it does not matter how many aircraft we have, or what kind, or where they fly to. When it's my turn I am only given one. I don't even get to choose which one. I do not get to choose who I fly with, or where I am sent, though this is annoying because I fly with too many fellas like you and I wish I could have an ignore list.
We have all been where you are, but at least we knew that we were young and naive and took the opportunity to learn from the old fella in the left seat. He taught us not only about flying, but also about how things work in life, and what matters most.
I believe in CC not only because it is the right thing, but because it's the only way we will preserve our CoS and our dignity.
In the western world deals and negotiations are done for the purpose of both parties winning, albeit through a compromise. In China someone has to be a winner, and someone has to be a loser. There is no compromise. This lot will only respect you and me when we stay the course and push back and say enough is enough.
We are not going down the wrong path. For too long we have allowed them to take our company down the wrong path. Pilots are in for the long term. Managers are maximising their bonuses and leave. What appears to be good for the short or medium term does not pay off in the long term. Bonuses should be tied to performance 10 years down the line and it should be paid out then. That would be a true measure of foresight and vision, and I would be really happy to reward them with millions.
We also have things we can do to fight back. We should have used them earlier. If a few of the direct entries fail on their courses, I am sure very quickly the word would get around. It's not hard really. Just like CC, the training department should stick to the requirements and give no benefit of the doubt.
You are young and naive. You may be informed about things, and this makes you think you are knowledgeable. Unfortunately you are not knowledgeable and as you lack experience you lack wisdom. You believe that because you have data, which you have put into context you have come up with useful stuff to say.
Sit back, relax, enjoy the view and the sandwiches and one day when you have matured enough you will be in a position to offer your wisdom to the xyz generation. You can then tell them about the old guys who stopped the rot through contract compliance.
CC works because it is not just for instant gratification, which is all your generation knows about. It is for the next 30 years until you retire. Management does not care about the long term. AT will not be here in a few years. You and I will be this is why it matters.
If you are concerned about the path we have taken, you are more than welcome to leave and join HKA or HK express. I am sure that if you are happy with what you signed, you will be happy with what is on offer there as well.
For those of us who have been here long enough, it does not matter how many aircraft we have, or what kind, or where they fly to. When it's my turn I am only given one. I don't even get to choose which one. I do not get to choose who I fly with, or where I am sent, though this is annoying because I fly with too many fellas like you and I wish I could have an ignore list.
We have all been where you are, but at least we knew that we were young and naive and took the opportunity to learn from the old fella in the left seat. He taught us not only about flying, but also about how things work in life, and what matters most.
I believe in CC not only because it is the right thing, but because it's the only way we will preserve our CoS and our dignity.
In the western world deals and negotiations are done for the purpose of both parties winning, albeit through a compromise. In China someone has to be a winner, and someone has to be a loser. There is no compromise. This lot will only respect you and me when we stay the course and push back and say enough is enough.
We are not going down the wrong path. For too long we have allowed them to take our company down the wrong path. Pilots are in for the long term. Managers are maximising their bonuses and leave. What appears to be good for the short or medium term does not pay off in the long term. Bonuses should be tied to performance 10 years down the line and it should be paid out then. That would be a true measure of foresight and vision, and I would be really happy to reward them with millions.
We also have things we can do to fight back. We should have used them earlier. If a few of the direct entries fail on their courses, I am sure very quickly the word would get around. It's not hard really. Just like CC, the training department should stick to the requirements and give no benefit of the doubt.
You are young and naive. You may be informed about things, and this makes you think you are knowledgeable. Unfortunately you are not knowledgeable and as you lack experience you lack wisdom. You believe that because you have data, which you have put into context you have come up with useful stuff to say.
Sit back, relax, enjoy the view and the sandwiches and one day when you have matured enough you will be in a position to offer your wisdom to the xyz generation. You can then tell them about the old guys who stopped the rot through contract compliance.
CC works because it is not just for instant gratification, which is all your generation knows about. It is for the next 30 years until you retire. Management does not care about the long term. AT will not be here in a few years. You and I will be this is why it matters.
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China,
"the very same pilots you insult here are the exact same you cower down to at work due their experience and knowledge"
That is comedy gold!!!! You are seriously DELUSIONAL if you think that mate.
So you're a guy who's had the absolute gravy train. A scale pay, ultra quick upgrade, probably took RA65, now you ask everyone else to delay their upgrades and lose money to keep the fight going. I think it's very unfair because it doesn't affect someone like you one bit.
"the very same pilots you insult here are the exact same you cower down to at work due their experience and knowledge"
That is comedy gold!!!! You are seriously DELUSIONAL if you think that mate.
So you're a guy who's had the absolute gravy train. A scale pay, ultra quick upgrade, probably took RA65, now you ask everyone else to delay their upgrades and lose money to keep the fight going. I think it's very unfair because it doesn't affect someone like you one bit.
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HFP,
I think one of the problems is guys thinking we need to fight for respect or "dignity" from the company. Who gives a f### what they think about us, they will never respect us because we are are just cogs in the wheel of the company.
As you say, they don't care about long term. Direct entry, and giving training/flying to KA is a short term fix but once it's implemented it will be here for the long term.
I think one of the problems is guys thinking we need to fight for respect or "dignity" from the company. Who gives a f### what they think about us, they will never respect us because we are are just cogs in the wheel of the company.
As you say, they don't care about long term. Direct entry, and giving training/flying to KA is a short term fix but once it's implemented it will be here for the long term.
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And still you comment without knowledge. You truly are that ignorant. Had you have investigated why I have my opinion and from where it comes you'd see how utterly, completely & outright stupid you have proven yourself to be.
Better to shut your mouth and be thought of a fool than open it and remove all doubt. (No, I didn't come up with that. One of the "old fools" who lived in the past did).
But go ahead, continue to make enemies & bring down further what the rest of CX real pilots and the greater (international) airline population thinks of the iCadet C-Scale pups.
Better to shut your mouth and be thought of a fool than open it and remove all doubt. (No, I didn't come up with that. One of the "old fools" who lived in the past did).
But go ahead, continue to make enemies & bring down further what the rest of CX real pilots and the greater (international) airline population thinks of the iCadet C-Scale pups.
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He does though make one good point:
'I think one of the problems is guys thinking we need to fight for respect or "dignity" from the company. Who gives a f### what they think about us, they will never respect us because we are are just cogs in the wheel of the company.'
Some of the 'we made this company, I'm God' brigade do struggle to get over themselves!
'I think one of the problems is guys thinking we need to fight for respect or "dignity" from the company. Who gives a f### what they think about us, they will never respect us because we are are just cogs in the wheel of the company.'
Some of the 'we made this company, I'm God' brigade do struggle to get over themselves!
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FUB
No, nothing like that at all. I'm just a regular s### kicker pilot who thinks there are lots of people blindly following each other into a fight that is escalating to a point where we are going to lose even if we win.
No, nothing like that at all. I'm just a regular s### kicker pilot who thinks there are lots of people blindly following each other into a fight that is escalating to a point where we are going to lose even if we win.
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Dan Buster....well said.
June 1st is just another day. What are they going to do that won't hurt (cost) them more than it will us? Their threats and bluster are meant for public (and board) consumption. If they want the training ban and CC to continue for another year...Okay, fine, see you next May.
On a side note...I heard that the previous manager of ICM is back in some advisory capacity. Isn't that rich....reaching back in time for policy advice from someone whose policies brought us to this point.
Einstein (definition of insanity) is rolling in his grave.
June 1st is just another day. What are they going to do that won't hurt (cost) them more than it will us? Their threats and bluster are meant for public (and board) consumption. If they want the training ban and CC to continue for another year...Okay, fine, see you next May.
On a side note...I heard that the previous manager of ICM is back in some advisory capacity. Isn't that rich....reaching back in time for policy advice from someone whose policies brought us to this point.
Einstein (definition of insanity) is rolling in his grave.
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Xwind,
Let's say for a second I decide to treat you like an adult and have a meaningful discussion. Um, what alternative solution(s) do you propose, you know just out of interest?
Let's say for a second I decide to treat you like an adult and have a meaningful discussion. Um, what alternative solution(s) do you propose, you know just out of interest?
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Let's not turn on each other now guys, I am assuming no girls here! We all have different opinions but keep your eye(s) on your six!
This sums it all up really and if you've never seen the movie, get it, it's like the best sci-fi movie ever! http://youtu.be/YDDzjijc6jY
This sums it all up really and if you've never seen the movie, get it, it's like the best sci-fi movie ever! http://youtu.be/YDDzjijc6jY
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Ugh
Wow! Isn't it incredible how when some apparently confident young gen Y **** comes along and posts on this forum, it suddenly becomes justification for some of you to show your true feelings toward the apparent 'C scale icadets'? Give me a break! I personally find it sad that a pilot group which is trying to apparently pull together to fight for a common cause can become so easily fragmented from a few provocative comments on an online forum and suddenly show its true colours toward a decent sized part of the pilot group. At the end of the day, this guy posting could be ANYONE.
With all due respect, some of you folks need to pull your head out of your arses and realise that:
A) There are actually some C scalers in this company that have a respectable level of experience and
B) A very large proportion of these so called 'inexperienced' pilots are paying their union subs and standing behind the guys on the front line with CC just like everyone else is.
I think some of you need to shift your way of thinking and to whom exactly you are apportioning blame and contempt towards here. Otherwise, you deserve about as much respect as the folks in management who are putting us into this situation in the first place.
Rant over
With all due respect, some of you folks need to pull your head out of your arses and realise that:
A) There are actually some C scalers in this company that have a respectable level of experience and
B) A very large proportion of these so called 'inexperienced' pilots are paying their union subs and standing behind the guys on the front line with CC just like everyone else is.
I think some of you need to shift your way of thinking and to whom exactly you are apportioning blame and contempt towards here. Otherwise, you deserve about as much respect as the folks in management who are putting us into this situation in the first place.
Rant over
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[QUOTE=HFP;9359019]
I believe in CC not only because it is the right thing, but because it's the only way we will preserve our CoS and our dignity. In the western world deals and negotiations are done for the purpose of both parties winning, albeit through a compromise. In China someone has to be a winner, and someone has to be a loser. There is no compromise. This lot will only respect you and me when we stay the course and push back and say enough is enough. [END QUOTE]
HFP
I believe everyone will agree you have age, beauty, experience, knowledge and understanding of the problem we face. Your perspective is well thought out. Your thoughts and concerns are worthy of careful consideration. However, it is only your personal perspective. Your perspective works perfectly - for you. That does not make it absolutely correct. Neither does it become the correct perspective for everyone else or in every personal situation.
The concern articulated early is still real to many. When do we become lemmings running toward a cliff?
Contract compliance in general and the training ban in particular are having a significant adverse affect on the company. We are in a relative and temporary position of power.
I do not believe the goal is to watch the company stumble and fall. Rather, we want the pressures CC is exerting to motivate the company to negotiate in good faith, present a deal we find agreeable and thereby avoid the wheels falling off.
That being said, if pushed too far the Company will act in the interests of the Company and take whatever action they believe appropriate to keep the wheels from falling off. Regardless of how brilliant and self evidently true our perspective, they will act according to their perspective. If the company acts unilaterally we will not benefit. We loose. COS are degraded. A new contract to sign.
It feels great to have power. The trick is using this power intelligently. How hard and how far do we push?
People who state "I do not care if the wheels come off!" do not instill confidence. They ignore the adverse impact of unilateral Company action.
I believe in CC not only because it is the right thing, but because it's the only way we will preserve our CoS and our dignity. In the western world deals and negotiations are done for the purpose of both parties winning, albeit through a compromise. In China someone has to be a winner, and someone has to be a loser. There is no compromise. This lot will only respect you and me when we stay the course and push back and say enough is enough. [END QUOTE]
HFP
I believe everyone will agree you have age, beauty, experience, knowledge and understanding of the problem we face. Your perspective is well thought out. Your thoughts and concerns are worthy of careful consideration. However, it is only your personal perspective. Your perspective works perfectly - for you. That does not make it absolutely correct. Neither does it become the correct perspective for everyone else or in every personal situation.
The concern articulated early is still real to many. When do we become lemmings running toward a cliff?
Contract compliance in general and the training ban in particular are having a significant adverse affect on the company. We are in a relative and temporary position of power.
I do not believe the goal is to watch the company stumble and fall. Rather, we want the pressures CC is exerting to motivate the company to negotiate in good faith, present a deal we find agreeable and thereby avoid the wheels falling off.
That being said, if pushed too far the Company will act in the interests of the Company and take whatever action they believe appropriate to keep the wheels from falling off. Regardless of how brilliant and self evidently true our perspective, they will act according to their perspective. If the company acts unilaterally we will not benefit. We loose. COS are degraded. A new contract to sign.
It feels great to have power. The trick is using this power intelligently. How hard and how far do we push?
People who state "I do not care if the wheels come off!" do not instill confidence. They ignore the adverse impact of unilateral Company action.
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That being said, if pushed too far the Company will act in the interests of the Company and take whatever action they believe appropriate to keep the wheels from falling off. Regardless of how brilliant and self evidently true our perspective, they will act according to their perspective. If the company acts unilaterally we will not benefit. We loose. COS are degraded. A new contract to sign.
Pushing back is the ONLY way not to get further steamrolled.
The company's response to a pair of shriveling balls is a well placed kick in the nuts.