British Airways pilot recruitment Hong Kong 16 April
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As it has been in the past it will probably be the BCP or the new GMF. Rumor has it that one of the recent terminations was an S/O about to quit for greener pastures and was instead terminated by the GMF.
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From American Airlines CEO Doug Parker
American Airlines Team Members:
We have good news to share. American Airlines is establishing a profit sharing program effective with our 2016 annual earnings. That means the program has already begun, and will pay out in early 2017 based on what we earn in 2016. The plan will put 5% of every pre-tax dollar we earn into a profit sharing pool to be shared by all team members (excluding management levels 5 and above).
We are taking this step because we have heard from many of you that a profit sharing plan is important to our success as a team. Although we continue to believe the most effective way to increase compensation is through higher base pay, we recognize there is a team-building component to profit sharing. Our colleague, Elise Eberwein, says it best: “Profit sharing is a feeling, not a formula.” By eliminating profit sharing in exchange for higher base pay rates, we inadvertently have eliminated some of our shared sense of teamwork – and that was never our intent.
We will reinstate profit sharing at the same 5% funding rate that was ratified by all American contract employees prior to our merger. This means the company will set aside 5% of our annual pre-tax income (before special items) every year, and that pool of money will be shared among all participants. Although this 5% rate is lower than our peers, we plan to offer hourly pay rates higher than those same peers in the contracts we’re negotiating now and in those to be negotiated in the future. As we have demonstrated in all joint contracts already reached, our view continues to be that we should set industry-leading pay rates as we negotiate our contracts so that higher pay is reflected in each paycheck, every pay period, throughout the year, and that your paycheck recognizes the work you do every day.
We believe this will provide the best of both pay structures: higher base rates as we negotiate new contracts and a shared sense of teamwork throughout the year as we deliver industry-leading financial results. Our new profit sharing plan will provide additional compensation on top of contractual pay rates already in place and its existence will not affect our pay rate proposals for joint contracts currently being negotiated. As you may know, management does not have the ability to unilaterally increase the compensation of team members represented by unions so we will need the approval of each union before this plan can be implemented for each group of represented employees. Because we will not be asking for anything in return, we expect your union leaders will readily agree.
This is an amazing time for American. To be in a position of strength and stability, and provide certainty to you and your families, is exactly what our merger set out to do. Instituting a profit sharing plan outside of negotiations is unprecedented in our business. It’s definitely a new day at American Airlines. And the key to our future success is an engaged, supported and motivated team.
We are dedicated to making that happen, and we know you are also. Let’s work together to make 2016 our best year ever.
American Airlines Team Members:
We have good news to share. American Airlines is establishing a profit sharing program effective with our 2016 annual earnings. That means the program has already begun, and will pay out in early 2017 based on what we earn in 2016. The plan will put 5% of every pre-tax dollar we earn into a profit sharing pool to be shared by all team members (excluding management levels 5 and above).
We are taking this step because we have heard from many of you that a profit sharing plan is important to our success as a team. Although we continue to believe the most effective way to increase compensation is through higher base pay, we recognize there is a team-building component to profit sharing. Our colleague, Elise Eberwein, says it best: “Profit sharing is a feeling, not a formula.” By eliminating profit sharing in exchange for higher base pay rates, we inadvertently have eliminated some of our shared sense of teamwork – and that was never our intent.
We will reinstate profit sharing at the same 5% funding rate that was ratified by all American contract employees prior to our merger. This means the company will set aside 5% of our annual pre-tax income (before special items) every year, and that pool of money will be shared among all participants. Although this 5% rate is lower than our peers, we plan to offer hourly pay rates higher than those same peers in the contracts we’re negotiating now and in those to be negotiated in the future. As we have demonstrated in all joint contracts already reached, our view continues to be that we should set industry-leading pay rates as we negotiate our contracts so that higher pay is reflected in each paycheck, every pay period, throughout the year, and that your paycheck recognizes the work you do every day.
We believe this will provide the best of both pay structures: higher base rates as we negotiate new contracts and a shared sense of teamwork throughout the year as we deliver industry-leading financial results. Our new profit sharing plan will provide additional compensation on top of contractual pay rates already in place and its existence will not affect our pay rate proposals for joint contracts currently being negotiated. As you may know, management does not have the ability to unilaterally increase the compensation of team members represented by unions so we will need the approval of each union before this plan can be implemented for each group of represented employees. Because we will not be asking for anything in return, we expect your union leaders will readily agree.
This is an amazing time for American. To be in a position of strength and stability, and provide certainty to you and your families, is exactly what our merger set out to do. Instituting a profit sharing plan outside of negotiations is unprecedented in our business. It’s definitely a new day at American Airlines. And the key to our future success is an engaged, supported and motivated team.
We are dedicated to making that happen, and we know you are also. Let’s work together to make 2016 our best year ever.
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I would suggest that as part of the current CC action that everyone possible should turn up at the road show. Any 'name takers' would be a waste of time if all those available put in an appearance. It would also go to show solidarity just like when a Forum night is held. Lets see the maximum number turn up!
If an airline like CX can even see the benifit of doing a bulk order of the same type of inexperience, I am sure the industrially smarter organisation can see the same.
I would encourage them to turn up in bulk for a bulk consideration.
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The aspect of most value in a career is having the protection of first world labour laws. The absence of that in HK is the biggest regret I have in my career. What is the point of investing years of your life in a company, only to have managers strip away everything without any real way to stop it happening (other than CC, sickness, etc...). If you are under 45, you would do yourself and your family much benefit by investing your efforts in a country that has some semblance of law governing your employment. HK does not.
baggagecart
I'm ex BA 747 Capt .... Have to say this is the only flaw in your otherwise good post. For full time junior crew it can be 4 or 5 trips on occasion although blind line holders are not often used as much. The way ahead might be commute from Spain and work part time - the new EASA limits and bidding system will throw up some shifts in the previous well known working environment.
(A380 only 3 flights a month, like all long haul flying at BA)
I'm ex BA 747 Capt .... Have to say this is the only flaw in your otherwise good post. For full time junior crew it can be 4 or 5 trips on occasion although blind line holders are not often used as much. The way ahead might be commute from Spain and work part time - the new EASA limits and bidding system will throw up some shifts in the previous well known working environment.
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Merrie England
Baggage Cart
... And all the merrie people of BA in England are so happy and enchanted, cos they don't have to pay tax at 40%, nor does their personal allowance disappear at 100K income to put more into that 40% bracket, nor do they pay National Insurance contributions or council tax on top of all that. And they can just live in Spain, except HMRC have closed this loophole, and they know their kids would be quite happy to go to school in Spain. And the cabin crew are - oh! - such fun, and the NHS is just perfect, and all the state schools are wonderful, and private education is only 25K per year if you need it. And owning a car (or two) and rail travel are just so cheap, and there are fairies at the bottom of every garden, especially the very expensive houses in the south of Merrie England where you would need to live on a short-haul roster... And they all dance and skip to their simulator sessions, as nobody ever fails a sim ride, nor a line check for that matter...
... And all the merrie people of BA in England are so happy and enchanted, cos they don't have to pay tax at 40%, nor does their personal allowance disappear at 100K income to put more into that 40% bracket, nor do they pay National Insurance contributions or council tax on top of all that. And they can just live in Spain, except HMRC have closed this loophole, and they know their kids would be quite happy to go to school in Spain. And the cabin crew are - oh! - such fun, and the NHS is just perfect, and all the state schools are wonderful, and private education is only 25K per year if you need it. And owning a car (or two) and rail travel are just so cheap, and there are fairies at the bottom of every garden, especially the very expensive houses in the south of Merrie England where you would need to live on a short-haul roster... And they all dance and skip to their simulator sessions, as nobody ever fails a sim ride, nor a line check for that matter...
baggagecart
TBH there are a couple of things you seem to be claiming that don't quite tie in with the reality of working at BA.
As ETOPS has already rightly pointed out 3 trips a month on Longhaul on any fleet is extremely rare, it's probably at least 4 trips most months (even for Blindline holders). In a full time month on the 777 probably the only way you might manage 3 trips is by picking up a SIN/SYD/SIN and two other trips, I'm not sure how you'd cap it at 3 in a full time month on fleets with shorter trips.
That really has confused me because a points system for trips is something I've never seen in BA, unless you're thinking of a Personal Bank Withdrawal - which is a request, not a right, and nowadays its getting more and more difficult to get approval to even do that. FWIW there's now a heck of a lot of grumbling in BA post EASA that it's almost impossible to guarantee time off for important life events.
(Edit to add: Nikon....
)
TBH there are a couple of things you seem to be claiming that don't quite tie in with the reality of working at BA.
As ETOPS has already rightly pointed out 3 trips a month on Longhaul on any fleet is extremely rare, it's probably at least 4 trips most months (even for Blindline holders). In a full time month on the 777 probably the only way you might manage 3 trips is by picking up a SIN/SYD/SIN and two other trips, I'm not sure how you'd cap it at 3 in a full time month on fleets with shorter trips.
Be able to 'clear' unwanted flights off your roster by using your points occurred for important life events.
(Edit to add: Nikon....
)
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Mar 2016 at 12:45.
the A380 rosters are 3 return flights
I've just had a look through the published 380 final final
rosters for March (both captains and P2s) and most full time pilots who don't have any commitments in month such as leave, Duty Free Week, Training, etc, seem almost all have 4 trips on their lines. I'd honestly say if you are in a fulltime month with no "blockers" in BA long Haul you can expect to probably operate 4-5 trips, regardless of fleet. Going back to the 380 for a minute don't forget the 380 is not just doing the ultra Longhaul stuff such as SIN, it's picking up some of the lower credit hours, lower flying hours stuff at times such as MIA and IAD (and there are rumours of it picking up one even lower flyiong/credit hour destination).
Dare I ask if where you heard about this points for trips scheme?
Last edited by wiggy; 25th Mar 2016 at 11:07.
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But do they get hallway fresheners? Big picture stuff!
How many BA FOs have "IQ air purifiers" in their kids bedrooms do you think?
How many BA FOs have "IQ air purifiers" in their kids bedrooms do you think?
Guys, I don't want to keep interfering in your part of the forum but there's an awful lot of "duff gen" popping up about the BA bidding system, so if you'll indulge me one more time (and BaronBlue I apologise before I start - I'm not about to pick on you in particular, it's just that your post contains some comments that highlight what seem to be a couple of common misconceptions). I'm going to attempt Bidline 101 (Long Haul version) and precis the relevant bits of a several hundred page document into one post:
Firstly very important "point of order": There is no such animal as a "bid line". After the first run of bidding (Stage 1) you will either get:
1. A Reserve line ( standby, available days, etc).
2. A Blindline ( where your roster is at the mercy of the company, though if you go to the 744 you will see a single "seeded" trip, other trips are added later.)
or:
3. A Tripline - a line with some trips on it but quite possibly not enough hours to make CAP - which is why I've asked previously if people making lifestyle comments were looking at the Stage 1 Triplines or Final final Rosters - there can be a heck of a difference, as I'll now try to explain..
If you have a Tripline that makes CAP that's it, sit back and hope you don't get caught later in the process.
If you have a below CAP Tripline post Stage 1 then if you are below CAP -15 you will have to bid at stage 2 to get more work, if you are above CAP -15 and you have banked hours to cover the shortfall you have a choice - either bid for more work or sit back, do nothing and hope etc......
After Stage 2 is complete as a Tripline holder hopefully you've got your final roster in your hand...........however following changes over the last year or so after Stage 2 the company can re jig your line with no input from the pilot and put extra trips on it to cover unallocated work. Most importantly that can happen regardless of whether you are above the CAP or not, regardless of whether you have hours in the bank or not.
As a result these days quite a few pilots are picking up their "Final final Rosters" a week or two after Stage 2 has finished and saying "Hey, WTF did that trip/those trips come from!!!!" It's a big problem in shorthaul but it is also happening to some on Long Haul - and it is causing major grief for people trying to organise their personal lives outside of leave..which I guess might sound familiar.
No, no, no, no............definitely not true.
Guys, if your final final roster is above CAP, the company will not just say, "Oh Dear, better take some work off you", they will say, "it's legal, you got it, you work it". The only way out is to try trade in the trip against any banked hours you have but the company will only allow that if they think they will have spare pilots on the day - so it's something you request and then you keep fingers crossed it's granted, it's not a right.
There is an option to pick up unassigned work for cash from open time but with so many guys getting close to FTL limits and the restictions of EASA it's not something to plan on doing every month.
Blindlines are handled differently in that your roster is written by the company pretty much after everybody else has had their pick of the work. You may end up below CAP, but you don't lose pay, OTOH you may end up above CAP (I think the max is CAP +4), in which case the hours above CAP are I believe paid as cash (within certain limits). Some of the Blindline credit may not be trip credit, it may be generated by nominated days where you have to be available for duty (notified of which the previous evening).
But after posting all the above the really really important point: Following negotiations involving our allegedly strong Union and then a ballot "Bidline", (i.e. the system) is being junked, perhaps by the end of next year....anyone joining shortly will spend most of their career being rostered under JSS and and how that will work is anybody's guess.
Apologies for the long post, hope that doesn't offend anyone, hope it is of some help to some.
The point system being referred to I believe is the company 'cap' i.e. the assigned monthly hours - if your bid line is above the monthly 'cap' the company removes flights and puts them in open time. You can then pick up these extra trips for some extra ££ I believe should you so wish. Not sure if you can ditch flights of your choosing If you accumulate extra in your 'bank'.
1. A Reserve line ( standby, available days, etc).
2. A Blindline ( where your roster is at the mercy of the company, though if you go to the 744 you will see a single "seeded" trip, other trips are added later.)
or:
3. A Tripline - a line with some trips on it but quite possibly not enough hours to make CAP - which is why I've asked previously if people making lifestyle comments were looking at the Stage 1 Triplines or Final final Rosters - there can be a heck of a difference, as I'll now try to explain..
If you have a Tripline that makes CAP that's it, sit back and hope you don't get caught later in the process.
If you have a below CAP Tripline post Stage 1 then if you are below CAP -15 you will have to bid at stage 2 to get more work, if you are above CAP -15 and you have banked hours to cover the shortfall you have a choice - either bid for more work or sit back, do nothing and hope etc......
After Stage 2 is complete as a Tripline holder hopefully you've got your final roster in your hand...........however following changes over the last year or so after Stage 2 the company can re jig your line with no input from the pilot and put extra trips on it to cover unallocated work. Most importantly that can happen regardless of whether you are above the CAP or not, regardless of whether you have hours in the bank or not.
As a result these days quite a few pilots are picking up their "Final final Rosters" a week or two after Stage 2 has finished and saying "Hey, WTF did that trip/those trips come from!!!!" It's a big problem in shorthaul but it is also happening to some on Long Haul - and it is causing major grief for people trying to organise their personal lives outside of leave..which I guess might sound familiar.
if your bid line is above the monthly 'cap' the company removes flights and puts them in open time.
Guys, if your final final roster is above CAP, the company will not just say, "Oh Dear, better take some work off you", they will say, "it's legal, you got it, you work it". The only way out is to try trade in the trip against any banked hours you have but the company will only allow that if they think they will have spare pilots on the day - so it's something you request and then you keep fingers crossed it's granted, it's not a right.
There is an option to pick up unassigned work for cash from open time but with so many guys getting close to FTL limits and the restictions of EASA it's not something to plan on doing every month.
Blindlines are handled differently in that your roster is written by the company pretty much after everybody else has had their pick of the work. You may end up below CAP, but you don't lose pay, OTOH you may end up above CAP (I think the max is CAP +4), in which case the hours above CAP are I believe paid as cash (within certain limits). Some of the Blindline credit may not be trip credit, it may be generated by nominated days where you have to be available for duty (notified of which the previous evening).
But after posting all the above the really really important point: Following negotiations involving our allegedly strong Union and then a ballot "Bidline", (i.e. the system) is being junked, perhaps by the end of next year....anyone joining shortly will spend most of their career being rostered under JSS and and how that will work is anybody's guess.
Apologies for the long post, hope that doesn't offend anyone, hope it is of some help to some.
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Mar 2016 at 13:14. Reason: Multiple edits - various reasons - sorry......
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BTW. As it seems we have a few BA blokes on the line.
Are all your LHR to Hong Kong flights 3 man crew?
And if so what are the rostering protections in and around the trips if any?
We are constantly reminded by our current Director of Flight Operations that 3 man ops are now 'best practice' and we should be doing them too.
Are all your LHR to Hong Kong flights 3 man crew?
And if so what are the rostering protections in and around the trips if any?
We are constantly reminded by our current Director of Flight Operations that 3 man ops are now 'best practice' and we should be doing them too.
Not my Fleet at the moment, but with that caveat:
Most used to be three crew and have been for a long time now, suspect they are all 3 now.
Two local nights off in HKG most trips.
Not completely up to speed on EASA/Bidline on this specific trip but looks like 3 local nights prior and post on most rosters.
Most used to be three crew and have been for a long time now, suspect they are all 3 now.
Two local nights off in HKG most trips.
Not completely up to speed on EASA/Bidline on this specific trip but looks like 3 local nights prior and post on most rosters.
Good luck all..what an amazing network they fly!..I really think something is up here in HK..you couldn't possibly want to manage an airline this way unless you were asset stripping it or being forced to sell. Go and enjoy a real career..this company is going nowhere but down.
Blunderbus
Having been taken very very much by surprise by that comment I originally posted a "thanks for the correction", but I've just been off and done some checking - are you sure about that statement because where I looked I couldn't see any 4 pilot HKGs for the foreseeable future on either the 777 or the 380.
FWIW and for definite the 744, when it did the route, and nowadays 777 both have longer flight times on the sector than the 380 and they went down to 3 pilots a fair time ago.
In any event as you say the default slip was/is around 48 hours.
I will publicly apologise and wind my neck if you can show that BA schedules the 380 on the daily HKG with 4 pilots (and the occasional 1 extra perhaps due to training doesn't count).
Two Capts and Two F/O's plus 48 hours in HKG on the 380.
FWIW and for definite the 744, when it did the route, and nowadays 777 both have longer flight times on the sector than the 380 and they went down to 3 pilots a fair time ago.
In any event as you say the default slip was/is around 48 hours.
I will publicly apologise and wind my neck if you can show that BA schedules the 380 on the daily HKG with 4 pilots (and the occasional 1 extra perhaps due to training doesn't count).
Last edited by wiggy; 28th Mar 2016 at 15:37. Reason: Complete re-jig due to further information being available.