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Xmas and New year

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Xmas and New year

Old 27th Dec 2015, 04:23
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 488
Methinks many would benefit by investing in a mirror.

Who is responsible for your safety ? Your health ? Your well being ? Who cares about these things ?

Pull out the mirror.

Who are you screwing if you work when you don't want to or shouldn't ? Pull out the mirror.

If you wanna work or think you should work over xmas / New Years or whenever work. If not figure a way not to. Why is anyone worried about the mission at this point ? How valuable--really--are all those gold stars in the grand scheme of life. You're not screwing others and they can buy a mirror too. Why would you solve scheduling problems for others when they've demonstrated this is not a two way street ? Things are NOT going to change in the near future. There might be an epithany at some time, but that some time lies down the road and won't happen until management figures this stuff out for itself. Sometimes, despite your input and warning, you have to let the kid put his hand on the stove to figure out its hot and it hurts.

IF you put this job ahead of your family, health, self, or friends I'd submit you are making a serious error you will probably regret in your later years. IF you really enjoy what you're doing and where you're going by all means have at it. But look at the big picture of things. At this point, who cares more about you and your well being--your family or the folks running the place ?

And look in the mirror. Because the person staring back at you is the only one who is gonna fix things for you.

Life's about the journey. Not the toys or money you wind up having when they close the lid.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2015, 05:11
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not in a Bus
Posts: 334
I'm surprised Shep. Its not about continuing manning the pumps for the Lords and Masters - absolutely not. Its more about not wishing to
put this job ahead of your family, health, self
by screwing my
who also have
White None is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2015, 05:53
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 488
Friends can manage their rosters too. Some of them might not mind working; some might. Those that might I'm sure can find a way to get their priorities straight as well. Benefit to all.

The key here is not feel compelled to get r done at the expense of loved ones. As professionals we sometimes have problems doing this--it's kind of ingrained in us--by scheduling family time around work instead of vice verse. How many put off getting teeth or long term medical conditions fixed to minimize impact on work ? How much leave is going unallocated ? How many extra days are commuters spending on the road needlessly with the deletion of a workable A day system. ? Morally, it is probably ones duty to try to fix this and change the paradigm. The situation is not of our making and one need never feel guilty about time well spent with family--especially those whose usable lifespan might not be all that much longer. Making time to spend with loved ones is always time well spent.

One would THINK that someone who manages would understand this. Why would you withhold leave and not have stable planned rosters (where you KNOW what is going to happen--even if you don't particularly like it--such that you can deal with it) vice have a wholly unpredictable loss of assets caused by not doing same which you effectively have zero control over. And at the last minute to boot.

But apparently not.

In fact, someone who had decided to stay home probably would have benefited me (and some other co-workers) who sat doing nothing and had our significant holiday dates at other times. So this is NOT a 'team' effort in any way--at least from the standpoint that your staying home is going to adversely affect one of your breathetn (which might have been the thought in days of yore). The schedule is so incoherent one doesn't know what impact one has down the road. So I'd humbly suggest folks do what they need to do to keep their lives on track.

Last edited by Shep69; 27th Dec 2015 at 06:24.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2015, 07:35
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,916
Shep is right. Gallantry in this regard is misplaced. It only serves the Company. CX builds holiday rosters with even more slop than normal. There is plenty of manning to cover the task, and those working might just get out of the hotels and find some EFP come their way of enough pilots book off.

Not sure if the heroes among you have noticed, but we do NOT have an agreed rostering agreement. Seniority is not honored. Fairness is not to be assumed. Transparency is most assuredly lacking. CX does what it wants, how it wants, and when it wants. For those without previous airline experience, this is not the way it is supposed to work. This type of rostering has no place in the 21st century. We often fly right to FTL maximums with minimum legal rest. While this may be safe and ok on occasion, it is not supposed to be like this month in and month out.

We get very little of our leave entitlements when we choose. We instead get a week here and there imposed with work stacking front and back. Often, a week's leave is little more than what would have been achieved via table X. Roster instability is constant, holidays or not. There is very little planning rest because a split duty may turn into an ULRO or vice versa. In short, the system is beyond broken. The AOA has been telling the Company this for years, but it falls on deaf ears. Instead, we get working groups to give the appearance of collaboration. Rest assured, there is NONE. The rosters will not be fixed with the new computerized system. The A350 will not fix Airbus rosters, and the freighter is permanently stuffed. The 777 will see more and more three man.

And some of you guys want to avoid roster adjustments over the holidays... Why? You are not helping anyone, yourself included.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2015, 17:20
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 36

You have got to be joking ???

Go to work sick, I'm sorry, your a goose ! I'm pretty sure I don't have to elaborate on that.
benttrees is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2015, 16:32
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 30
It doesn't change

I worked there many moons ago (decided it was a @#it sandwich) but I digress.

I still remember standing around one New Years Eve kicking rocks sans drink. Asking around, it was amazing how many other guys were on standby until 2359. CX will never change, they will make noises, show shiny baubles, promise the moon. But in the end the accountants win, and the boys at the coalface get shafted. CX 101, divide and conquer.
tuck is offline  

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