AT, where are you??
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AT, where are you??
AT, you've gone awfully quiet these past weeks. Could it be that you finally realised how contemptous your comments were, and how utterly rejected and loathed they had become amongst the pilot body? What have you got to say for yourself? I suggest you have some full length blinds put on your office windows, and keep them drawn during daylight hours. At least we now know you never had any real intentions of dealing with the pilots honourably. Do you believe in shame? Swire...probably not.
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Oh yes, having a great time! 8 hrs sleep in three days, the 7th roster change so far this month, stealing of 4 hrs overtime and no leave allocated even though owed 3 weeks (that one I am going to sort out regardless :-). What a completely sad excuse for an airline. And Anna, you really seem to think that continuing down this road is sustainable? (..oh, I forgot, the ONLY thing you care about sustaining is YOUR bonus). This operation WILL sooner or later collapse in upon itself. You have created about 3000 permanent CC adherents. Most of us truly don't care anymore, and look for every justifiable opportunity to hinder any help or assistance. You squandered that right to our goodwill long ago. Have a NICE weekend Anna.
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Fltops Director is a junior board position.
Please Dir finance: I Want more money for a roster system - cannot, affects my bonus
Please Dir people: I Want more people to crew my airplanes - cannot, affects my bonus
All presided over by the guy who is ONLY known for cost cutting and is so incompetent in public, all his press release are written by consultants and they don't ever trust him in front of a TV camera.
Until CC materially affects the bottom line and senior bonus levels (I predict by mid next year when A350s are parked), or the shareholders realise the company profits are being materially constrained by the boards' intransigence, or the board are embarrassed in the press about the self induced crewing crisis and overriding safety issues, we will hear nothing from AT.
At least she speaks Swire, unlike the previous seat warmer.
Please Dir finance: I Want more money for a roster system - cannot, affects my bonus
Please Dir people: I Want more people to crew my airplanes - cannot, affects my bonus
All presided over by the guy who is ONLY known for cost cutting and is so incompetent in public, all his press release are written by consultants and they don't ever trust him in front of a TV camera.
Until CC materially affects the bottom line and senior bonus levels (I predict by mid next year when A350s are parked), or the shareholders realise the company profits are being materially constrained by the boards' intransigence, or the board are embarrassed in the press about the self induced crewing crisis and overriding safety issues, we will hear nothing from AT.
At least she speaks Swire, unlike the previous seat warmer.
Last edited by mr did; 19th Sep 2015 at 06:28.
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Do not worry, the trainers will keep on training and checking and keeping the whole thing going.
They have written that letter that has gone NOWHERE and stuck there necks out.
But that will be all they can muster.
Anna will probably offer another round of joker leave to keep them all happy.
They have written that letter that has gone NOWHERE and stuck there necks out.
But that will be all they can muster.
Anna will probably offer another round of joker leave to keep them all happy.
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Goathead. Really man, stuff it up your a*se. The letter only got to AT last week. Let's see what develops. You and your personal crusade against the C & T's is getting tiresome. Again, thanks for giving solace to the management. If you can't help, then shut the h up. Just saying...
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That letter raises red flags from as high a level as you'll ever see in a company such as Cathay.
Managers will not raise such issues, because the very willingness to do so would have disqualified them from management in the first place. That is a corporate culture issue applicable to many organisations, but in this case particularly to Cathay. Mid level flight ops managers in many (not all) western airlines have a dual role; they shovel $hit downwards but at the same protect the line drivers from the worst of it. When they do their job properly, letters such as these aren't required.
Respect for the individuals who wrote it. Respect for the individuals who signed it. Shame on the individual who leaked it. And shame on the managers who made this letter necessary in the first place.
The canary-bird has sung its song.
Managers will not raise such issues, because the very willingness to do so would have disqualified them from management in the first place. That is a corporate culture issue applicable to many organisations, but in this case particularly to Cathay. Mid level flight ops managers in many (not all) western airlines have a dual role; they shovel $hit downwards but at the same protect the line drivers from the worst of it. When they do their job properly, letters such as these aren't required.
Respect for the individuals who wrote it. Respect for the individuals who signed it. Shame on the individual who leaked it. And shame on the managers who made this letter necessary in the first place.
The canary-bird has sung its song.
Published in today's SCMP, so public domain:
Exhausted pilots tell Cathay their workloads are a threat to flight safety
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 September, 2015, 3:25am
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 September, 2015, 12:08pm
Flight safety is under threat as exhausted aircrews cope with increasing workloads, senior Cathay Pacific pilots have warned in a letter to the airline’s management that is seen by the Sunday Morning Post.
Cathay responded by saying safety was its top priority. The carrier confirmed having received the letter, which it said “expressed some concerns”.
According to the airline’s most experienced captains in the 1,900-word letter, bearing nearly 100 signatures, rank-and-file pilots were “tired and worn out” as they were routinely hitting the cap on flying hours – known as approved flight time limitation (AFTL) – governed by Hong Kong’s aviation regulator to prevent fatigue. This came after a rostering practices agreement between the airline and its pilots was recently axed.
One pilot who declined to be named so as not to breach company policy said aircrews working up to the maximum flying hours regularly risked an accident sooner or later.
“The AFTL is an ultimate barrier,” the source said. “The concern we have is, if you’re working right up to that barrier continuously, it’s not sensible. It’s like driving at the speed limit the entire time.
“You are generating cumulative fatigue the whole time and when you start your next duty, you haven’t recovered fully.”
The signatories of the letter said: “We feel strongly that these concerns need to be heard at the highest levels within the company and be placed on the record.”
They cited a “recent fatigue-related incident” by a pilot blamed on fatigue. Cathay did not address the incident in a reply to the Post.
The Civil Aviation Department stressed aviation safety was its “topmost priority”.
It pledged to seek more information from Cathay about the letter to ensure all requirements of the department were fully complied with.
Senior pilots penned the warning letter a week after their employer cancelled on August 12 an industrial agreement with their union dictating flying hours and minimum cockpit manpower levels.
“We the undersigned are writing to you to express our utmost concern and alarm at the recent termination of our [agreement], specifically the potential change in crewing levels and how this may effect fatigue levels and, by extension flight safety,” the letter, addressed to director of flight operations Anna Thompson, said.
The senior pilots said they felt compelled to speak out “as custodians of a safe flying culture” within the airline and “have a responsibility … to voice our concern” on what was happening.
The final sentence of the letter stated: "The way in which pilots are rostered for work needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency and needs to be fixed with the active participation of pilots, not by the unilateral actions of the Company."
The rostering of pilots had intensified because of a long-term chronic shortage of pilots, they warned. It also stated the growing workload contributed to illness and long-term sickness among the workforce.
An airline spokeswoman said: “We are looking at these concerns and engaging directly with the pilots. Matters which relate to safety are always dealt with in a formal manner and they receive our utmost attention. The safety of passengers and crew is the No 1 priority.”
The airline said it had a fatigue risk management system, with the support of the pilots’ union, to manage fatigue-related issues.
Cathay’s pilot union, the Aircrew Officers Association, declined to comment directly on the letter because it was not initiated by the union. However, it said it had taken the lead to address the issue.
The Air Navigation (Hong Kong) Order 1995 requires that crew self-report possible fatigue and should not act as a member of an aircrew, Hong Kong’s aviation regulator said.
A Civil Aviation Department spokeswoman said it found “no adverse trend” in the breach of pilot flying hours.
Of a fatigue-related aviation incident, the aviation regulator said it will press Cathay Pacific for details and ask “for the details of the referred event and will take follow-up action if necessary,"
Days off taking-off
Pilots familiar with the contents of the letter allege they are forced to fly beyond the regulated flying hours allowed by aviation law.
Rest periods defined as a ‘domestic day off’ (DDO) which formed the rostering agreement – and supplemented the aviation laws – could be converted into standby or duty within 12-hours notice.
The DDO comprises of a minimum of 34 continuous hours (including two local nights) free from operating a flight.
Cathay could swap the DDO agreement to help the airline recover from major travel disruption.
However, the source said that over time, the company has started “peppering” the roster with standby or duty, so effectively a pilot can be used with 12 hours notice anytime during the month, and claimed it could be used without being in breach of Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department's laws governing flying hours to avoid fatigue among pilots.
This facilitated the roster instability, the source claimed. So the pilot’s union attempted to halt the increase in rest-day conversions at the now-failed negotiations. After the pay deal was reached, Cathay withdrew the rostering agreement, and made the rest-day conversion a mandatory policy.
Cathay Pacific stressed it complied with the rules on flight operating hours.
Fatigue Management System success
Cathay Pacific and its pilot body formed a fatigue management system, a committee, to oversee tiredness in the cockpit.
In one example of the committees work, it recognised overnight Singapore flights are operated by Hong Kong-based two-crew pilots, who report [to work] time of 0025 until 1040 in the morning – a 10hr 15 min continuous working day commencing at half past midnight.
“That is fatiguing,” described one pilot.
"What the company decided is - and this is sensible - they found it was very fatiguing for Hong Kong-based pilots, but it wasn’t very fatiguing for Auckland-based pilots because of their bodyclock [adjusted to early morning rather than nighttime], so the company is trying very hard to make it just the Auckland-based pilots [to operate two-crew flights], but when they use a Hong Kong person, they use a third pilot.
“Now that is sensible because we should be having dialogue about [fatigue situations], but we are now in the situation where the company has taken away our rostering practices and "it’s our ball game and [Cathay] will adjust it as we feel".
Southern Australia flights to become two-pilots only?
Cathay Pacific carried out a study - crewing Australia flights with two-crew instead of three, according to pilot sources. The new rules allow 2 crew to fly into southern Australian airports by night as well as by day, whereas, traditionally these were done by a 3-pilot crew. The length of these flights, approximately 9 hours to Sydney, is at the top end of the limit on flying hours for two pilots.
Current rules by Hong Kong’s aviation regulator stated that two pilots could work up to a nine hour flight duty period (FDP) (effectively, an eight hour flight) during the day but only an eight hour FDP (seven hour flight) by night still flying during the hours of 0200-0559 before needing a 3rd pilot.
Under the new rules, there is no distinction between night and day, which means that many Australian flights which go through the night can now be crewed by two pilots, whereas before the flight needed third pilots.
Pilots argue aircrews cannot cope with the same workload during the night as the human bodyclock is being deprived of sleep.
Two-crew currently operate to Perth and Cairns, but the plan is to extend the rule to southern Australian cities including Sydney and Brisbane.
According to a pilot familiar with the matter: “The report [to study this move] said this won’t work because the fatigue levels are huge. But it is legal. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean to say it won’t induce excess fatigue, particularly for pilots who are already tired before the start.”
This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Exhausted pilots tell Cathay their workloads are threat to safety
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 September, 2015, 3:25am
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 September, 2015, 12:08pm
Flight safety is under threat as exhausted aircrews cope with increasing workloads, senior Cathay Pacific pilots have warned in a letter to the airline’s management that is seen by the Sunday Morning Post.
Cathay responded by saying safety was its top priority. The carrier confirmed having received the letter, which it said “expressed some concerns”.
According to the airline’s most experienced captains in the 1,900-word letter, bearing nearly 100 signatures, rank-and-file pilots were “tired and worn out” as they were routinely hitting the cap on flying hours – known as approved flight time limitation (AFTL) – governed by Hong Kong’s aviation regulator to prevent fatigue. This came after a rostering practices agreement between the airline and its pilots was recently axed.
One pilot who declined to be named so as not to breach company policy said aircrews working up to the maximum flying hours regularly risked an accident sooner or later.
“The AFTL is an ultimate barrier,” the source said. “The concern we have is, if you’re working right up to that barrier continuously, it’s not sensible. It’s like driving at the speed limit the entire time.
“You are generating cumulative fatigue the whole time and when you start your next duty, you haven’t recovered fully.”
The signatories of the letter said: “We feel strongly that these concerns need to be heard at the highest levels within the company and be placed on the record.”
They cited a “recent fatigue-related incident” by a pilot blamed on fatigue. Cathay did not address the incident in a reply to the Post.
The Civil Aviation Department stressed aviation safety was its “topmost priority”.
It pledged to seek more information from Cathay about the letter to ensure all requirements of the department were fully complied with.
Senior pilots penned the warning letter a week after their employer cancelled on August 12 an industrial agreement with their union dictating flying hours and minimum cockpit manpower levels.
“We the undersigned are writing to you to express our utmost concern and alarm at the recent termination of our [agreement], specifically the potential change in crewing levels and how this may effect fatigue levels and, by extension flight safety,” the letter, addressed to director of flight operations Anna Thompson, said.
The senior pilots said they felt compelled to speak out “as custodians of a safe flying culture” within the airline and “have a responsibility … to voice our concern” on what was happening.
The final sentence of the letter stated: "The way in which pilots are rostered for work needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency and needs to be fixed with the active participation of pilots, not by the unilateral actions of the Company."
The rostering of pilots had intensified because of a long-term chronic shortage of pilots, they warned. It also stated the growing workload contributed to illness and long-term sickness among the workforce.
An airline spokeswoman said: “We are looking at these concerns and engaging directly with the pilots. Matters which relate to safety are always dealt with in a formal manner and they receive our utmost attention. The safety of passengers and crew is the No 1 priority.”
The airline said it had a fatigue risk management system, with the support of the pilots’ union, to manage fatigue-related issues.
Cathay’s pilot union, the Aircrew Officers Association, declined to comment directly on the letter because it was not initiated by the union. However, it said it had taken the lead to address the issue.
The Air Navigation (Hong Kong) Order 1995 requires that crew self-report possible fatigue and should not act as a member of an aircrew, Hong Kong’s aviation regulator said.
A Civil Aviation Department spokeswoman said it found “no adverse trend” in the breach of pilot flying hours.
Of a fatigue-related aviation incident, the aviation regulator said it will press Cathay Pacific for details and ask “for the details of the referred event and will take follow-up action if necessary,"
Days off taking-off
Pilots familiar with the contents of the letter allege they are forced to fly beyond the regulated flying hours allowed by aviation law.
Rest periods defined as a ‘domestic day off’ (DDO) which formed the rostering agreement – and supplemented the aviation laws – could be converted into standby or duty within 12-hours notice.
The DDO comprises of a minimum of 34 continuous hours (including two local nights) free from operating a flight.
Cathay could swap the DDO agreement to help the airline recover from major travel disruption.
However, the source said that over time, the company has started “peppering” the roster with standby or duty, so effectively a pilot can be used with 12 hours notice anytime during the month, and claimed it could be used without being in breach of Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department's laws governing flying hours to avoid fatigue among pilots.
This facilitated the roster instability, the source claimed. So the pilot’s union attempted to halt the increase in rest-day conversions at the now-failed negotiations. After the pay deal was reached, Cathay withdrew the rostering agreement, and made the rest-day conversion a mandatory policy.
Cathay Pacific stressed it complied with the rules on flight operating hours.
Fatigue Management System success
Cathay Pacific and its pilot body formed a fatigue management system, a committee, to oversee tiredness in the cockpit.
In one example of the committees work, it recognised overnight Singapore flights are operated by Hong Kong-based two-crew pilots, who report [to work] time of 0025 until 1040 in the morning – a 10hr 15 min continuous working day commencing at half past midnight.
“That is fatiguing,” described one pilot.
"What the company decided is - and this is sensible - they found it was very fatiguing for Hong Kong-based pilots, but it wasn’t very fatiguing for Auckland-based pilots because of their bodyclock [adjusted to early morning rather than nighttime], so the company is trying very hard to make it just the Auckland-based pilots [to operate two-crew flights], but when they use a Hong Kong person, they use a third pilot.
“Now that is sensible because we should be having dialogue about [fatigue situations], but we are now in the situation where the company has taken away our rostering practices and "it’s our ball game and [Cathay] will adjust it as we feel".
Southern Australia flights to become two-pilots only?
Cathay Pacific carried out a study - crewing Australia flights with two-crew instead of three, according to pilot sources. The new rules allow 2 crew to fly into southern Australian airports by night as well as by day, whereas, traditionally these were done by a 3-pilot crew. The length of these flights, approximately 9 hours to Sydney, is at the top end of the limit on flying hours for two pilots.
Current rules by Hong Kong’s aviation regulator stated that two pilots could work up to a nine hour flight duty period (FDP) (effectively, an eight hour flight) during the day but only an eight hour FDP (seven hour flight) by night still flying during the hours of 0200-0559 before needing a 3rd pilot.
Under the new rules, there is no distinction between night and day, which means that many Australian flights which go through the night can now be crewed by two pilots, whereas before the flight needed third pilots.
Pilots argue aircrews cannot cope with the same workload during the night as the human bodyclock is being deprived of sleep.
Two-crew currently operate to Perth and Cairns, but the plan is to extend the rule to southern Australian cities including Sydney and Brisbane.
According to a pilot familiar with the matter: “The report [to study this move] said this won’t work because the fatigue levels are huge. But it is legal. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean to say it won’t induce excess fatigue, particularly for pilots who are already tired before the start.”
This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Exhausted pilots tell Cathay their workloads are threat to safety
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The importance of feedback – 22 September 2015
Broccoli is an edible green plant in the cabbage family whose large flowerhead is eaten as a vegetable.
The word broccoli comes from the Italian plural of broccolo, which means "the flowering crest of a cabbage", and is the diminutive form of brocco, meaning "small nail" or "sprout".[3] Broccoli is often boiled or steamed but may be eaten raw.[4]
Broccoli is an edible green plant in the cabbage family whose large flowerhead is eaten as a vegetable.
The word broccoli comes from the Italian plural of broccolo, which means "the flowering crest of a cabbage", and is the diminutive form of brocco, meaning "small nail" or "sprout".[3] Broccoli is often boiled or steamed but may be eaten raw.[4]
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Wicked Witch To Go
But all she still offers is 'fluff' words. As in her opening statement she admitted in her own words she would be judged on 'action not words' her time is up. Any bets on the shortest lived DFO in CX history? 
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The importance Of Feedback
A joke. This is a joke... Right?
The alarming letter sent to her by over 100 of the company's most experienced captains obviously did not qualify as "feedback"...
What a wasted talent. She'd fit right in at the Donald Trump campaign, where the average low IQ voter might rally to her nonsensical spin.
Color me disgusted.
Again.
The alarming letter sent to her by over 100 of the company's most experienced captains obviously did not qualify as "feedback"...
What a wasted talent. She'd fit right in at the Donald Trump campaign, where the average low IQ voter might rally to her nonsensical spin.
Color me disgusted.
Again.
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I actually threw up on my keyboard when I read that our GM Flying was now "leading" a committee to improve our rostering.
I can hardly wait for the next report in November as well as the "initiatives underway".
So *#&$% predictable.
I can hardly wait for the next report in November as well as the "initiatives underway".
So *#&$% predictable.
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Then once they have decided for you, with no consultation with the pilot body or independent fatigue scientists, they tell you how rostering will work to your advantage in the future. It then gets handed to a crack squad in the IT department to implement, with a proposed implementation date of the last quarter 2019. Voila! Job done, next problem? Yes, actions speak louder than words.
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AT.
The letter that was addressed to you by the C and T captains was common knowledge amongst the front line FOP staff. Why did you not comment to the staff on your thoughts as to the contents of the letter? All you have done is comment on a SCMP article. Not for the first time the press seems to run this airline. And not for the first time that cx would rather be " seen to be safe" than actually be safe. Hence we are no longer informed of operational stuff ups that we can all learn from.
The Friday updates used to be 5 pages on a quiet week, 8 pages when things were hectic.
In a week where;
You received a letter from senior captains claiming the airline was unsafe.
OTP hovered in the 20's.
Dozens of flights were cancelled and hundreds delayed.
Our sister airline seriously bent one of our old 330's in an accident on a cx code share flight.
And Allah knows what else.
you give us a one line summary saying nothing happened. Bonus!
Feedback is a two way tool. Show some leadership for God's sake.
We all know Dick was the mastermind and architect of this mess. But as the previous GMA you didn't come into the role naive as to the issues. In fact, you used to tell us how aware of the issues you were and promised action, not words, were what was required.
Well, the only action we see is regressive and the words have totally dried up.
One of the few suggestions from the HC report that was released highlighted the need to hire outside advisors with fresh ideas rather than listening to tired Swire ideology. But it seems you're surrounding yourself with Dick's own yes men. Do you honestly think one of them is about to have a eureka moment?
Find the manager(s) who told Dick his future direction was flawed.
That's who you want in the office beside you.
The letter that was addressed to you by the C and T captains was common knowledge amongst the front line FOP staff. Why did you not comment to the staff on your thoughts as to the contents of the letter? All you have done is comment on a SCMP article. Not for the first time the press seems to run this airline. And not for the first time that cx would rather be " seen to be safe" than actually be safe. Hence we are no longer informed of operational stuff ups that we can all learn from.
The Friday updates used to be 5 pages on a quiet week, 8 pages when things were hectic.
In a week where;
You received a letter from senior captains claiming the airline was unsafe.
OTP hovered in the 20's.
Dozens of flights were cancelled and hundreds delayed.
Our sister airline seriously bent one of our old 330's in an accident on a cx code share flight.
And Allah knows what else.
you give us a one line summary saying nothing happened. Bonus!
Feedback is a two way tool. Show some leadership for God's sake.
We all know Dick was the mastermind and architect of this mess. But as the previous GMA you didn't come into the role naive as to the issues. In fact, you used to tell us how aware of the issues you were and promised action, not words, were what was required.
Well, the only action we see is regressive and the words have totally dried up.
One of the few suggestions from the HC report that was released highlighted the need to hire outside advisors with fresh ideas rather than listening to tired Swire ideology. But it seems you're surrounding yourself with Dick's own yes men. Do you honestly think one of them is about to have a eureka moment?
Find the manager(s) who told Dick his future direction was flawed.
That's who you want in the office beside you.
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DFO,
You came to CX on the back of an engagement survey that gave a 4% approval rating of Flight Operations senior management.
You said you'd fix it.
So as a benchmark of how you and your team are doing, why don't you run the exact survey again, and you can then see what progress you've made.
No? I didn't think so. 0% anyone?
What an utter and total failure you and your team have PROVEN to be. I sincerely hope Swire comes through with a big broom soon before something very bad happens.
You came to CX on the back of an engagement survey that gave a 4% approval rating of Flight Operations senior management.
You said you'd fix it.
So as a benchmark of how you and your team are doing, why don't you run the exact survey again, and you can then see what progress you've made.
No? I didn't think so. 0% anyone?
What an utter and total failure you and your team have PROVEN to be. I sincerely hope Swire comes through with a big broom soon before something very bad happens.
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I sincerely hope Swire comes through with a big broom soon before something very bad happens.
Heard the one about the Dual HYD failure , 5 other A330s grounded as same Haeco Clown worked on them.
No one did. It didn't happen. Shhhh.
Swire philosophy - Reward Failure. To My Bonus as The Management would say.