CX Pilot arrested at Heathrow for possession of knives
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I must say, I'm a little surprised by the indignation shown in some of these posts that the pilot was not at fault. I don't know why the article in question was in his luggage but the fact that security found it and acted, probably according to their SOP, should be applauded rather than scoffed at, IMHO. Or should we expect security staff to exercise discretion when it's us?
Thread Starter
Steve, I don't think pilots should be let off - if, indeed, the item did fall within the banned size range.
Working for a B757 operator, we did our own engine oil check and replenishment. I had a flat screwdriver with the blade ground to fit nicely in the RD211 cowl flap. One day I was challenged by security but, when I explained, they let it through. I guess they could have confiscated it but they were sensible chaps.
Working for a B757 operator, we did our own engine oil check and replenishment. I had a flat screwdriver with the blade ground to fit nicely in the RD211 cowl flap. One day I was challenged by security but, when I explained, they let it through. I guess they could have confiscated it but they were sensible chaps.
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Of course they should arrest him, throw him to the vultures!
It's not like he has an entire plane to crash into the nearest mountain if he wants to.... oh wait, that was done already....
(The irony is strong with this one...)
It's not like he has an entire plane to crash into the nearest mountain if he wants to.... oh wait, that was done already....
(The irony is strong with this one...)
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I think this is not about airport security.
The offences he was charged with by the police have nothing to do with airport security, but rather concealed weapons laws from 1953 and 1988.
If this makes it through court then the weapons he had are not a simple folding knife, or even something like a leatherman's tool.
Having moved to the UK recently, after living most of my life in the USA, I was a bit surprised to hear about "knife laws", so I read up on them, here's the best link I've found:
UK Knife Law- What you need to Know
Basically, if you have a reason to have a pocket knife, you're OK, but if you're carrying something that was clearly designed to inflict injury, you're going to jail.
The offences he was charged with by the police have nothing to do with airport security, but rather concealed weapons laws from 1953 and 1988.
If this makes it through court then the weapons he had are not a simple folding knife, or even something like a leatherman's tool.
Having moved to the UK recently, after living most of my life in the USA, I was a bit surprised to hear about "knife laws", so I read up on them, here's the best link I've found:
UK Knife Law- What you need to Know
Basically, if you have a reason to have a pocket knife, you're OK, but if you're carrying something that was clearly designed to inflict injury, you're going to jail.
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probably according to their SOP, should be applauded rather than scoffed at, IMHO
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STP--I'm scoffing. A lot.
Even the US TSA--which is rightfully scoffed at from time to time--has some reasonability factor. A simple 'oops,' "please take away whatever I can't be trusted with" look into the situation a bit and press.
The irony of the mindless drones grabbing tools is priceless. And the tabloids lost no time in bringing up the German thing; something which has no relevance or connection whatsoever.
There are plenty of things which will always be present on any aircraft forever which can be used as a weapon if desired by a miscreant (or even a good guy defending against a miscreant)--as (if not more) effective than a knife or 'sharp object.' So throwing a pilot in jail--the same guy that would be FLYING the airplane--is silly. We used to carry our leathermans all the time; something that is sorely missed when a minor repair is needed.
In fact, in his excellent book "Fate is the Hunter" E.K. Gann refers to firearms that commercial pilots were required to carry when transporting the mail in the DC-3 days. Seems that people with responsibility were more trusted with tools and sharp objects not all that long ago. And there were good guys and bad guys then too.
Seems like the world I used to know went insane when I wasn't paying attention.
Even the US TSA--which is rightfully scoffed at from time to time--has some reasonability factor. A simple 'oops,' "please take away whatever I can't be trusted with" look into the situation a bit and press.
The irony of the mindless drones grabbing tools is priceless. And the tabloids lost no time in bringing up the German thing; something which has no relevance or connection whatsoever.
There are plenty of things which will always be present on any aircraft forever which can be used as a weapon if desired by a miscreant (or even a good guy defending against a miscreant)--as (if not more) effective than a knife or 'sharp object.' So throwing a pilot in jail--the same guy that would be FLYING the airplane--is silly. We used to carry our leathermans all the time; something that is sorely missed when a minor repair is needed.
In fact, in his excellent book "Fate is the Hunter" E.K. Gann refers to firearms that commercial pilots were required to carry when transporting the mail in the DC-3 days. Seems that people with responsibility were more trusted with tools and sharp objects not all that long ago. And there were good guys and bad guys then too.
Seems like the world I used to know went insane when I wasn't paying attention.
Last edited by Shep69; 20th Apr 2015 at 13:53.
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Flight delayed until next day due to no reserve crew?
Let's not overlook the pathetic fact that Cathay Pacific doesn't even have a pilot on reserve at its largest European base!
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I've mentioned this before but...
I was flying regularly after September 11, short & long haul from LHR, LGW, MAN and BHX.
Most times I wore my hair up. The beak hair clip I used was 5-6 inches long, solid metal, pointed, and serrated. Similar to this, but plain and the 'blades' were serrated.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/726/0...010726_402.jpg
In summary, what equates to two knives, hinged together.
Not once was it spotted or queried. Not. Once.
It didn't even set the metal detectors off. How?
I saw other women wearing similar clips, and I think I recall seeing them for sale airside too. It made a mockery of all the 'security precautions' that you could waltz through with something like that.
I was flying regularly after September 11, short & long haul from LHR, LGW, MAN and BHX.
Most times I wore my hair up. The beak hair clip I used was 5-6 inches long, solid metal, pointed, and serrated. Similar to this, but plain and the 'blades' were serrated.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/726/0...010726_402.jpg
In summary, what equates to two knives, hinged together.
Not once was it spotted or queried. Not. Once.
It didn't even set the metal detectors off. How?
I saw other women wearing similar clips, and I think I recall seeing them for sale airside too. It made a mockery of all the 'security precautions' that you could waltz through with something like that.
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@Shep69
So would you scoff at them charging a guy trying to get through airport security in, let's say, Honolulu using an ex-employer's ID because he can't be bothered to take his shoes off? Or should they have simply said, "Oops, sorry sir, even though the law says you're not allowed to do what you're doing we'll turn a blind eye this time because you seem like a nice chap"?
Even the US TSA--which is rightfully scoffed at from time to time--has some reasonability factor. A simple 'oops,' "please take away whatever I can't be trusted with" look into the situation a bit and press.
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Knives - plural
We seem to have lost sight of the fact that all of the reports read Knives - yes that is plural. We're not talking about a Leatherman here but a set of knives. Perhaps a gift received or a stupid impulse purchase for someone at home -- and he thought that he would try to get through the gestapo. What'e the worst that could happen ? They will confiscate the knives. Wrong - stupid decision !
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darkroomsource
Possible.
However, a Metropolitan Police spokesman said:
Not necessarily.
If convicted, an offender may receive an immediate custodial sentence.
The sentence imposed will depend (amongst other things) upon the nature of the item, the circumstances of the offence and the offender's antecedents.
I think this is not about airport security.
However, a Metropolitan Police spokesman said:
"On Saturday at around 9.10pm police at Heathrow Airport were called to a staff search area after a search of a member of flight crew, for a flight later that night, found them in possession of some knives.
Basically, if you have a reason to have a pocket knife, you're OK, but if you're carrying something that was clearly designed to inflict injury, you're going to jail.
If convicted, an offender may receive an immediate custodial sentence.
The sentence imposed will depend (amongst other things) upon the nature of the item, the circumstances of the offence and the offender's antecedents.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 20th Apr 2015 at 15:15.
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STP,
No one is asking the security staff to turn a blind eye and let pilots go through with potential weapons.
But whatever happened to simply confiscating the item or even turning the chap back asking him to check it in? Does the police and sensationalist press really need to get involved?
Their jobs is to prevent any dangerous items from getting in the cabin, not to be imperious a$$holes about it.
It doesn't take many trips to LHR to understand that these idiots hate flight crews with a passion.
No one is asking the security staff to turn a blind eye and let pilots go through with potential weapons.
But whatever happened to simply confiscating the item or even turning the chap back asking him to check it in? Does the police and sensationalist press really need to get involved?
Their jobs is to prevent any dangerous items from getting in the cabin, not to be imperious a$$holes about it.
It doesn't take many trips to LHR to understand that these idiots hate flight crews with a passion.
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Having a set of chef's knives is very unlikely to result in this in the UK. It's a reasonable excuse to possess them if recently purchased and transporting them, and a pilot (or passenger) taking them home would be perfectly reasonable. So it could violate airport security rules, but not be an offence in general. IMO it was knives of another sort that didn't have an immediate reasonable explanation for possession, martial arts type items perhaps?
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Relief Crew
Oval3Holer
IN actual fact, CX says that "Cathay Pacific were unable to organise a relief crew" as a reason for the overnight delay. It intimates that no relief crew was organised. It leaves open the possibility that the originally scheduled crew did the flight. After all the pilot in question was available on bail ---- and it would be much cheaper !
Flight delayed until next day due to no reserve crew?
Let's not overlook the pathetic fact that Cathay Pacific doesn't even have a pilot on reserve at its largest European base!
Let's not overlook the pathetic fact that Cathay Pacific doesn't even have a pilot on reserve at its largest European base!
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@Yonosoy Marinero
Without knowing the facts I can't really say what should or shouldn't have been done, despite my earlier statement regarding security staff SOPs. As yet we don't know the nature of the items, how they were concealed (if in fact they were), the pilot's reaction to the staff and so on. This may well have been an innocent mistake on the part of the pilot and I sincerely hope that it was. Whether he should have been arrested or not is perhaps a matter that Flying Lawyer would like to comment on? My original point was the apparent inconsistency that some have with their points of view depending on who we're dealing with, that's all.
But whatever happened to simply confiscating the item or even turning the chap back asking him to check it in? Does the police and sensationalist press really need to get involved?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Steve, you've just said what I was thinking. The security services have a job to do, and a knife is a prohibited article (apart from carrying one in a public place). Best wait and see what sort/size of knife it was.
