You have got payrise!
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744drv, they are really much smarter than we are, yet are very successful in making us think they are not. They've been doing this for 150 years. You? I? Certainly not for that long...
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they are really much smarter than we are, yet are very successful in making us think they are not. They've been doing this for 150 years
Put this airline in a more competitive environment with a real union and then let's see how great and intelligent our pathetic managers are.
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Sorry Col Angus, having that attitude is rather self defeating, as F10 points out. I can assure you that I have a better education than any of our managers and I certainly refuse to accept that they are more intelligent than I am. What intelligence they have has been better practiced at being underhand and deceitful .... that I will give them.
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I just love those Captains who give jump seats only to cockpit and cabin crew who are Union members. A perk the AOA negotiated. Just a pity there is so few Captains doing this.
Freeloaders, that money you save on membership fee's , reinvest it in full fare tickets.
Freeloaders, that money you save on membership fee's , reinvest it in full fare tickets.
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OK, Flap10 and 744drv,
Yes, they are not very smart, inherently, but, due to our stupidity (define that how you will), lack of resolve, and general disorganization, it doesn't take much for them to play the card game such as you have seen since the early 90s and are continuing to see now.
Yes, they are not very smart, inherently, but, due to our stupidity (define that how you will), lack of resolve, and general disorganization, it doesn't take much for them to play the card game such as you have seen since the early 90s and are continuing to see now.
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@744drv
Come, come, come, don't sell yourself short. To quote Bertrand Russell,
Oh, hang on a minute.... 
STP
I can assure you that I have a better education than any of our managers and I certainly refuse to accept that they are more intelligent than I am.
"We are faced with the paradoxical fact that education has become one of the chief obstacles to intelligence and freedom of thought.
STP
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McNugget, as you wrote:
Please elaborate how, as a a C-Scale iCadet with all your illustrious experience and time in HK, let alone CX, you can "once again" make such sweeping comments. If the AOA & CX pilot body stood up against the lowering of T&C's you wouldn't even be at CX. So I believe you should be thanking the AOA for their "unfit for purpose" status as you describe. After all had the AOA of truly represented the "wishes of the membership" you & your ilk would not be there.
Embarrassingly you see yourself as part of the solution when you're mere existence at CX greases the slippery spirally slope downward.
But your first sentence was spot on!
That much is a fact
A freeloader, perhaps. But frankly, I'm only in for the insurance at this point. The GC and AOA leadership have, once again, proven themselves unfit for purpose. They have in no way represented the wishes of the membership. That much is a fact.
Embarrassingly you see yourself as part of the solution when you're mere existence at CX greases the slippery spirally slope downward.
But your first sentence was spot on!
That much is a fact
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Hahaha, so you're still here. That is hilarious.
Why don't you worry about things that concern you.
I doubt you'll find many within the CX pilot group who disagrees with me. Then again, you're not to know that.
Get a life, you sad little troll. I can't begin to comprehend how poorly your life must have worked out for you to continue whining on these boards.
PS. That was my LAST sentence, not my first. You illiterate sad act.
Why don't you worry about things that concern you.
I doubt you'll find many within the CX pilot group who disagrees with me. Then again, you're not to know that.
Get a life, you sad little troll. I can't begin to comprehend how poorly your life must have worked out for you to continue whining on these boards.
PS. That was my LAST sentence, not my first. You illiterate sad act.
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Freeloader.
You said it. 1st sentence. (I'm typing this slowly for you just in case).
Does the insurance you're "only in it for" cover your yellow spine? Or is there someone, somewhere you can undercut and cheapen to get that sorted out as well?
You said it. 1st sentence. (I'm typing this slowly for you just in case).
Does the insurance you're "only in it for" cover your yellow spine? Or is there someone, somewhere you can undercut and cheapen to get that sorted out as well?
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There probably is. If it personally affects you aswell, then so much he better; I'll take it.
Does your insurance package cover the psychiatric care that you so clearly need?
You do realise that coming on here, ranting and raving like a little schoolgirl about CX - some 6 years after you interviewed, and some 4 years after turning down a new package; is actually psychotic.
Seek help, you sad, bitter troll.
Does your insurance package cover the psychiatric care that you so clearly need?
You do realise that coming on here, ranting and raving like a little schoolgirl about CX - some 6 years after you interviewed, and some 4 years after turning down a new package; is actually psychotic.
Seek help, you sad, bitter troll.
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Help received - thanks for your concern. It came via a widebody DEFO job with a package on par with B-Scale. I'll be able to retire comfortably from it. What's more - brace yourself - I did't screw over my colleagues and industry as a whole to get it! I could tell you more but it involves words like "experience" and "credentials". (Try google for a basic definition).
The AOA's inaction which you moan about by allowing the disgraceful lowering of recruitment standards & remuneration package is what got you the job in the first place. Irony?
Now, back to how a self described freeloader C-Scale iCadet like yourself warrants the AOA to be "unfit for purpose" (with all your experience in HK and CX).
I'm only asking you to be accountable & elaborate on the words you wrote.
Troll? Because I'm still fascinated and shocked that guys like you still chest-beat about screwing your own colleagues over and the wider pilot population in general? Because my opinion differs from yours? Because I have many, many friends at CX whom I take an active interest in and visit regularly in HK and we discuss these things in HK and when catching up on layovers all over the globe? In your eyes, of course. Once again because I challenge and question you and (try) to make you accountable for your decision and words.
There are other threads you could read but I note you've avoided.... "Dear SO" (here some help, click here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...9-dear-so.html) and the "RA and S/O Did Nothing" (and here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...d-nothing.html) so you can once again laud how you are respected at CX.
Feeloader. Your words.
The AOA's inaction which you moan about by allowing the disgraceful lowering of recruitment standards & remuneration package is what got you the job in the first place. Irony?
Now, back to how a self described freeloader C-Scale iCadet like yourself warrants the AOA to be "unfit for purpose" (with all your experience in HK and CX).
I'm only asking you to be accountable & elaborate on the words you wrote.
Troll? Because I'm still fascinated and shocked that guys like you still chest-beat about screwing your own colleagues over and the wider pilot population in general? Because my opinion differs from yours? Because I have many, many friends at CX whom I take an active interest in and visit regularly in HK and we discuss these things in HK and when catching up on layovers all over the globe? In your eyes, of course. Once again because I challenge and question you and (try) to make you accountable for your decision and words.
There are other threads you could read but I note you've avoided.... "Dear SO" (here some help, click here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...9-dear-so.html) and the "RA and S/O Did Nothing" (and here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...d-nothing.html) so you can once again laud how you are respected at CX.
Feeloader. Your words.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 30th Nov 2014 at 12:22.
'' Because I'm still fascinated and shocked that guys like you still chest-beat about screwing your own colleagues over and the wider pilot population in general? Because my opinion differs from yours? Because I have many, many friends at CX whom I take an active interest in and visit regularly in HK and we discuss these things in HK and when catching up on layovers all over the globe?''
Christ you're even more dull than I thought. Haven't you got anything else to talk about?
Christ you're even more dull than I thought. Haven't you got anything else to talk about?
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HA! Another typical iCadet C-Scale response.... No surprises.
Yes, I could talk about other things. We could discuss single pilot night ops, NDB approaches into black holes, scalloping, flight planning your own flight, freezing levels vs min lowest safe altitudes, scud running, 8+ sector days, refuelling your own aircraft, aeroplanes with (brace yourself!) "no autopilot", or even "flying an aircraft", etc but I'm sure you're already bewildered and confused. We could discuss integrity, about earning a job and not screwing over a pilot body or wider community in general to accept a job on disgracefully lower terms and conditions. We could discuss the moral implications of undercutting a market for self gain. We could discuss what a union or association is there for, what solidarity is, etc.... But again I fear you'll be lost, dazed and confused at the words "integrity", "spine" and "conscience". I know you think all these things are "dull".
But this topic and thread has to do with the pay dispute at CX, the AOA and discussion thereof. Some people like McNugget believe the pilot association is just an insurance policy for self interest alone and moans about their inadequacy whereby all the while that precise inadequacy is what provided you and him the job in the first place. So, I simply wanted to challenge his hypocritical and ignorant statements. As a self confessed "freeloader" I wanted him or her to elaborate and be accountable for those statements.
In the mean time shouldn't you be working on your EK CV so you can daze and amaze them with your P2X hours??
Yes, I could talk about other things. We could discuss single pilot night ops, NDB approaches into black holes, scalloping, flight planning your own flight, freezing levels vs min lowest safe altitudes, scud running, 8+ sector days, refuelling your own aircraft, aeroplanes with (brace yourself!) "no autopilot", or even "flying an aircraft", etc but I'm sure you're already bewildered and confused. We could discuss integrity, about earning a job and not screwing over a pilot body or wider community in general to accept a job on disgracefully lower terms and conditions. We could discuss the moral implications of undercutting a market for self gain. We could discuss what a union or association is there for, what solidarity is, etc.... But again I fear you'll be lost, dazed and confused at the words "integrity", "spine" and "conscience". I know you think all these things are "dull".
But this topic and thread has to do with the pay dispute at CX, the AOA and discussion thereof. Some people like McNugget believe the pilot association is just an insurance policy for self interest alone and moans about their inadequacy whereby all the while that precise inadequacy is what provided you and him the job in the first place. So, I simply wanted to challenge his hypocritical and ignorant statements. As a self confessed "freeloader" I wanted him or her to elaborate and be accountable for those statements.
In the mean time shouldn't you be working on your EK CV so you can daze and amaze them with your P2X hours??
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 1st Dec 2014 at 04:45.
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No. I actually stated that the AOA is primarily useful due to the very reasonable loss of income insurance.
And I used the term freeloader, as quoted by someone else.
I don't expect you to understand.
Can you tell me more about NBD approaches? You make them sound so interesting.
Glad you found an airline that takes guys with psychiatric disorders. One with B-scale conditions, no less. Who? Oh yes, you won't say.
But, clearly it's awesome, thus negating the need to continually look over your (chipped) shoulder and loiter around here when you're point of view is neither wanted, valid nor relevant. Well done you.
And I used the term freeloader, as quoted by someone else.
I don't expect you to understand.
Can you tell me more about NBD approaches? You make them sound so interesting.
Glad you found an airline that takes guys with psychiatric disorders. One with B-scale conditions, no less. Who? Oh yes, you won't say.
But, clearly it's awesome, thus negating the need to continually look over your (chipped) shoulder and loiter around here when you're point of view is neither wanted, valid nor relevant. Well done you.
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I'll assume your typo was just that and not borne from ignorance. It's an "NDB" not "NBD". It's a navigation aid & one typically may conduct a circling approach from it. But you're not permitted to fly an aircraft at present, nor will you ever be permitted to fly a circling approach under CX's rules so it's just another skill you'll never possess. So don't stress. I (may I state "we" who unfortunately share the same skies as you & your super cool dude Facebook & playstation/flightsim cronies) would prefer if you were more proficient at TCAS, it's uses and operation.
A term used by someone else, yes. You took ownership of it, proudly and succinctly: freeloader.
Fella, we could swap personal jibes forever. You know what C-Scale is, what threats to the conditions of your colleagues it undeniably presents, as well to the wider pilot body. Me psychotic? The fact you continually deny it is psychotic in ignorance, arrogance and hypocritical at the very, very least. You speak out against the AOA not improving your package when due your own DIRECT and UNDENIABLE actions YOU willingly and proudly agreed and asked to lower them to such a disgusting extent!!??
So how about you please justify your words why, considering YOUR tenure in HK and CX thus far the AOA is "unfit for purpose" and that had they have not been as such you would never have been eligible or considered close to competent in experience or credentials for a job at CX.
If, as you say, the AOA truly represented the wishes of the membership then you would not have a job at CX. When considering this then please elaborate on your comments about the AOA: "They have in no way represented the wishes of the membership"
A term used by someone else, yes. You took ownership of it, proudly and succinctly: freeloader.
Fella, we could swap personal jibes forever. You know what C-Scale is, what threats to the conditions of your colleagues it undeniably presents, as well to the wider pilot body. Me psychotic? The fact you continually deny it is psychotic in ignorance, arrogance and hypocritical at the very, very least. You speak out against the AOA not improving your package when due your own DIRECT and UNDENIABLE actions YOU willingly and proudly agreed and asked to lower them to such a disgusting extent!!??
So how about you please justify your words why, considering YOUR tenure in HK and CX thus far the AOA is "unfit for purpose" and that had they have not been as such you would never have been eligible or considered close to competent in experience or credentials for a job at CX.
If, as you say, the AOA truly represented the wishes of the membership then you would not have a job at CX. When considering this then please elaborate on your comments about the AOA: "They have in no way represented the wishes of the membership"
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I do apologise for my incorrect spelling. I was being sarcastic. I have flown many NDB approaches. It's a total non-event. I'm also permitted to fly, thanks.
In order to avoid jibes, 'fella', I'll just answer your one question. The rest seems a bit much for you.
This is a thread about a pay deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
In respect of said pay deal/negotiations, the HKAOA have not respected the wishes of the membership. This has been demonstrated on several occasions in the last 15 months.
Their purpose is to represent the interests of the membership. As such, they are currently unfit for purpose.
Is that clear enough? It's hard to judge how much to dumb it down with you.
PS. Who do you work for again?
In order to avoid jibes, 'fella', I'll just answer your one question. The rest seems a bit much for you.
This is a thread about a pay deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
In respect of said pay deal/negotiations, the HKAOA have not respected the wishes of the membership. This has been demonstrated on several occasions in the last 15 months.
Their purpose is to represent the interests of the membership. As such, they are currently unfit for purpose.
Is that clear enough? It's hard to judge how much to dumb it down with you.
PS. Who do you work for again?
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You're not permitted to touch the controls of the aircraft by virtue of the rights & limitations of your HK CAD P2X rating. Why lie about the obvious?
OK, if the questions I posed are "a bit much" for me, then how about answering them for the wider group reading (and being amused) by these posts?
As you again believe, the AOA is unfit for purpose: the words of a self confessed freeloader. So, in light of this, is it not a fact that had the AOA of done what you wished it would, i.e. "respect the interests of the membership", then C-Scale would never have been able to occur and YOU would not be eligible to apply or interview for CX?
It's taken several posts to get this much from you so you're not dumbing it down for me. You're illustrating your own arrogance and ignorance in needing to be pressed to do so.
It's a thread about a pay deal: yes. But how hypocritical that you now demand what you directly and undeniably contributed toward: the severe and disgusting lowering of the remuneration for CX pilots. Now you want the AOA to fight for "more" when you asked so eagerly in applying and accepting C-Scale accepted FAR "less"??!!!
Again, I'd invite you to go back and read these more recent threads http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...9-dear-so.html and here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...d-nothing.html to judge how well respected you are. Not just those threads but a plethora of other threads and posts. That shows what the "interests" of the pilots feel and want.
If you truly want the AOA to represent the interests of the membership then you'd be out the door in a heartbeat.
As written before, MANY, MANY people at CX and elsewhere know who I am by name. To say where I work on a public forum like this is irrelevant, but it wouldn't take a genius to figure it out given the info I've repeated time and time again. Carriers offering the T&C's I'm on are obvious. So, to clarify no matter how many times you ask I won't divulge that information as such. You join the dots. It's the same as me demanding your full name on a public forum. Would you give that?
OK, if the questions I posed are "a bit much" for me, then how about answering them for the wider group reading (and being amused) by these posts?
As you again believe, the AOA is unfit for purpose: the words of a self confessed freeloader. So, in light of this, is it not a fact that had the AOA of done what you wished it would, i.e. "respect the interests of the membership", then C-Scale would never have been able to occur and YOU would not be eligible to apply or interview for CX?
It's taken several posts to get this much from you so you're not dumbing it down for me. You're illustrating your own arrogance and ignorance in needing to be pressed to do so.
It's a thread about a pay deal: yes. But how hypocritical that you now demand what you directly and undeniably contributed toward: the severe and disgusting lowering of the remuneration for CX pilots. Now you want the AOA to fight for "more" when you asked so eagerly in applying and accepting C-Scale accepted FAR "less"??!!!
Again, I'd invite you to go back and read these more recent threads http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...9-dear-so.html and here: http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...d-nothing.html to judge how well respected you are. Not just those threads but a plethora of other threads and posts. That shows what the "interests" of the pilots feel and want.
If you truly want the AOA to represent the interests of the membership then you'd be out the door in a heartbeat.
As written before, MANY, MANY people at CX and elsewhere know who I am by name. To say where I work on a public forum like this is irrelevant, but it wouldn't take a genius to figure it out given the info I've repeated time and time again. Carriers offering the T&C's I'm on are obvious. So, to clarify no matter how many times you ask I won't divulge that information as such. You join the dots. It's the same as me demanding your full name on a public forum. Would you give that?
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I don't have a HKCAD P2X rating. Idiot.
I don't confess to freeloading. Your comprehension has failed you.
I don't demand more from the AOA. Again, your comprehension has failed you.
Regarding the 'dear SO' thread; I'm not an SO.
Regarding the RA thread; It is fictitious, and was a TA in RVSM. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.
As you don't answer any of my questions, I won't further answer any of yours.
Do yourself a favour, and go somewhere where people want your input, and as a bonus point, don't think you're an oxygen thief.
That, demonstrably, is not here.
I don't confess to freeloading. Your comprehension has failed you.
I don't demand more from the AOA. Again, your comprehension has failed you.
Regarding the 'dear SO' thread; I'm not an SO.
Regarding the RA thread; It is fictitious, and was a TA in RVSM. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.
As you don't answer any of my questions, I won't further answer any of yours.
Do yourself a favour, and go somewhere where people want your input, and as a bonus point, don't think you're an oxygen thief.
That, demonstrably, is not here.