Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Dear SO

Old 20th Nov 2014, 07:49
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Dear SO

I hate to break it to you: you will never get full housing.

I know this might come as a shock, but still, you will never get it.

If you find this unfair, consider that I will never get A scale or a week-long layover in the Bahamas plus X millions of sterling in my pension fund like the generation before me.

You might also find it helpful to understand the concept of market forces in a free economy and finding out what kind of legal and social system is in force in HK might give you a hint in that respect.

Now, please do me two favors:

1) Don't listen to those ignorant B scalers who make you believe you deserve it/ think it is outrageously unfair /tell you it is not enough to raise a family/ etc. Just ignore this patronizing, unfounded mother of BS bla bla, forget it, don't believe it, just please, for the love of Jesus Christ ( or Buddha), IGNORE IT. Please.

2) Don't ever vote down a payrise again ( unless you enjoy making a complete fool out of yourself)

Thank you
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 20th Nov 2014, 10:20
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,768
Ahh that's funny, 99% of the SO's are mighty pissed off all by themselves and don't need other people B or A scale telling them how to feel.

Idiot, get off the third floor and do something positive for a change will ya
ACMS is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2014, 13:26
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Here ---> X
Posts: 440
What an asinine rant.

Regardless of whether they ever get it, why should they not fight for it?

Not to mention the fact that when non-housing pilots happen to become a majority in CX, question of when not if, who will be defending your side when your dear employer comes after your housing with a chainsaw and a sadistic grin?

A-scalers are or will all soon be no better off than B-scalers, who in turn should look at C-scalers like a wet finger in the wind of change.

Look after your own crew meal before spitting in that of others. We're all in the same team. Let me reassure you: management hates you as much as they hate every other pilot on the payroll.
Yonosoy Marinero is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2014, 18:41
  #4 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
STW is trying to do them a favour. There is absolutely no point in hanging around here. Get the rating and leave.
Old 20th Nov 2014, 19:31
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 97
Good gracious me, your Managers have your best interests at heart. Just as those who, like me when I went down to help those poor Australian passengers stranded by those naughty pilots back in the 80,s. You chose to work in chinky china town, so make the most of it.Or move out.
koi is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2014, 11:20
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 478
XFR8, STW, et. al.

This is EXACTLY why many of us are devoting a lot of time and effort to the current dust-up. We don't want to see this happen to our airline. Many of us love what we do, are interested in the long term profitability of the place and working conditions, and don't want to see it trashed out by a few self-serving managers who place ego and power over people and profitability.

If we DO go down the path the short sighted folks seem to want, we will see exactly this--as folks gain experience and ratings we will lose them at exactly the time we most want and need them. Folks will use this as a training ground and bolt. No contract on the planet will be enforceable to keep them.

It's hard to fathom how those who are paid so much can act so stupidly. I might not like the fact that fuel and airplanes cost more now than they did in 1960, but that doesn't mean I will pout and hate fuel and airplanes and write volumes about how fuel and airplanes are screwing me. Skilled labour costs money just like any other resource. It ALSO has the somewhat unique quality that when it gets pi$$ed off it doesn't work as well.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2014, 12:58
  #7 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

I/we completely understand where you are coming from, unfortunately management prey on the pilots inbuilt professionalism and loyalty and abuse it. It's an all too familiar scenario round here and you won't change it. Take the DFO & GMA's recent correspondence with the union and the pilots as a whole, we are managed by morons who wouldn't last two minutes in a proper airline.

No, there is no future here, don't make any emotional investment in the place. Get a rating, move on.
Old 21st Nov 2014, 21:49
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,428
I wouldn't call it loyalty, it's called seniority and once those handcuffs take hold any lack of pay rise will never match the pay cut of going to the bottom of a new seniority list, so people will bitch and moan and stay right where they are just like the managers like it!
SMOC is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2014, 22:56
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,129

When you mention OUR airline, you forget one is THEIR airline and you to them are just an annoyance that they have to have.

Do not for one minute think that you are part of THEIR are not!
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2014, 03:29
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not in a Bus
Posts: 331
Notwithstanding all the undeniable current issues, personalities, problems etc etc etc, in what way is Cathay Pacific not a
proper airline
??? Just confused by your definition.
White None is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2014, 05:40
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lots of Different Places
Posts: 28
Regardless of whether they ever get it, why should they not fight for it?
Save your fights for something you have a hope of getting.
bridgeport is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2014, 11:51
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 31
I'm an SO. I know full expat housing will not happen.

The union needs to drop this line and think of a realistic alternative if conditions are going to improve for us.
LS8C1 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2014, 03:59
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Ignore it!! Please, just pretend you didn't read it. We need to practise that, I get it, it's not easy. The fatherly tone, the conspiracy theory, brotherhood- slang,it's all there. I get it!! But, hey, that's why you are a pilot, you can do it!!!!

PS IF you fail, if you just can't evade it anymore, let's say in the middle of the Pacific, you had your tenth bathroom break, BUT HE IS STILL TALKING, here is what you do:

Ask him how exactly a SO is supposed to fight.

NOT eating the sandwiches? Refusing to take first rest?

And if that STILL doesn't do the trick, ask how he personally is planning to fight ( it is very important you stress this "personal" thing, or he will tell you, again, about "other" people who have to "fight"). In general, he will try to always see his contract as baseline, A scaler being the odd exception above his terms, and you, obviously, outrageously inferior trying to destroy everything from below. Be vigilant!

Good luck!!!
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 23rd Nov 2014, 07:19
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,768
STW added to my ignore list.

ACMS is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2014, 08:26
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601

I think it's wrong of you to add STW to your ignore list (no, I'm not him before you jump to any conclusions). Although you might not like, or agree with, what he's posted, he does make some valid points. Just because a truth is inconvenient doesn't mean that it should simply be ignored - how else can one make a balanced judgement?

STP - off to the ignore list of many I dare say!
Steve the Pirate is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2014, 10:17
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 405
I just added supercadet to my ignore list
" just saying "
Supercadet gen y proving the point, again ....
Supercadet were you one of the ones that didnt pass the interview and all that but got the job anyway ? Theres QUITE a few like you
goathead is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2014, 23:57
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 58
Supercadet has expressed his thought out opinion on where he sees Housing allowance and HKPA in a few years time if we fail to address this issue. Don't think that merits a personal attack and the threat to block.
Goathead your opinion of Cathay management must be a lot higher than mine if you think that they don't already have a plan to undermine expatriate housing in the future.
From a distance is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2014, 02:16
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Everybody calm down!!! Now!!! Nobody is ignoring or selling out anybody, is that clear?? OR....

I will wear my RED LANYARD!!!!!!

You have been warned!!!
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 1st Dec 2014, 15:38
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 513
How about the Gweilo 777 SO who keeps telling everyone that one day he will be the CEO of CX...hahahahaaaaa....

Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 1st Dec 2014 at 16:40.
AQIS Boigu is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2014, 18:42
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 398

As mentioned on another post....what do YOU suggest STW?
Let's just all accept those rostering changes..2%..unilateral changes to our contracts or work practices? You're obviously ok with that but I'm not..I've seen 26 years of this here and it has only ever gotten's an undulating ride in declining conditions of employment but would you rather slide down an up and down grassy slope on your ass or fall off a cliff? The difference has always been resistance..or lack of it.
BlunderBus is offline  

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