HOUSING
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
From: www
HOUSING
Rumour has it that CX wants to change housing. My response: mess with the stability of my family and I and you will see a sickness rate that will ground the airline overnight. Go ahead...call my bluff. See you in two or three months after I'm back from 'stress leave'. Seriously, push that button. Just give me a reason (well, give me yet another reason ). As soon as I hear Nick has taken a cut in his housing. Otherwise....make my day.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 220
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From: home
We will fire many pilots with you being the first. Problem solved.How will YOUR FAMILY deal with that?
We don’t care about YOUR FAMILY, We are here to make money and yes we are going after housing, rostering and very low pay rises.
Haven’t you figured it out yet, your threats are meaningless. Next.
The pilot group has no idea how to do contract compliance properly, most don’t want to do it. Every pilot is looking over their shoulder thinking they will stick out if they should try contract compliance.
To My Bonus
(Sent on behalf of “The Management”)
We don’t care about YOUR FAMILY, We are here to make money and yes we are going after housing, rostering and very low pay rises.
Haven’t you figured it out yet, your threats are meaningless. Next.
The pilot group has no idea how to do contract compliance properly, most don’t want to do it. Every pilot is looking over their shoulder thinking they will stick out if they should try contract compliance.
To My Bonus
(Sent on behalf of “The Management”)
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
From: www
Good luck with keeping your check and trainers after that move. And Management...save the predictable comments. Housing is sacrosanct, and it will be THE red line. We'll see though wont we.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 124
Likes: 54
From: Australia
No housing = No work
I was seriously considering a "yes" vote on the pay offer, mostly coz I'm sick of all the arguing & negative sentiment, but if this rumor turns out to have any truth to it my "No" vote is a lock!
Everybody should educate themselves on how the boys at Air France are dealing with their situation & grow a pair ! Their pilots have already cost the company $25 million Euro this month by standing their ground.
I was seriously considering a "yes" vote on the pay offer, mostly coz I'm sick of all the arguing & negative sentiment, but if this rumor turns out to have any truth to it my "No" vote is a lock!
Everybody should educate themselves on how the boys at Air France are dealing with their situation & grow a pair ! Their pilots have already cost the company $25 million Euro this month by standing their ground.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: UK
I wouldn't worry about the C&T dept too much. Break even would be at the SCN yr 6 point and most of them are at, close to or beyond that.
Given that everyone keeps telling me the housing market's about to crash, it might not be a bad idea!
Given that everyone keeps telling me the housing market's about to crash, it might not be a bad idea!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 124
Likes: 54
From: Australia
The housing market has been about to crash for the last 10 years!
Most guys who use the housing to cover a mortgage have the repayments maxed out now, so what will they do, just simply sell their house for whatever they can get & go rent in Tung Chung?
Most guys who use the housing to cover a mortgage have the repayments maxed out now, so what will they do, just simply sell their house for whatever they can get & go rent in Tung Chung?
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 165
Likes: 1
From: Europe
If true, where's the letter?
It should be published on the AoA website.
Anyway, a 25 years grandfathering would be adequate.
What about the captains who were renting at ceiling? I suppose it's okay for them to move out to a place half as small because they were just renting?
Maybe they will offer that 'cash' allowance in London, now that RH is taking a base?
It should be published on the AoA website.
Anyway, a 25 years grandfathering would be adequate.
What about the captains who were renting at ceiling? I suppose it's okay for them to move out to a place half as small because they were just renting?
Maybe they will offer that 'cash' allowance in London, now that RH is taking a base?
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
From: HK
Y M
The company is not in a hurry for us to sign it, 9 months after the start of negotiations?
We need to look at the long game they are playing, is this "rumour" to get everyone to vote no? This will save them money and play into their hands as CC is NOT the magical charm a few vocalists think it is.
They have been planning this "attack" on housing for a long time and a cash "allowance" will make us very similar to other HK expats, to spend as you wish.
A new contract anyone?
Swire are NOT fools, treat them like that at your peril.
The company is not in a hurry for us to sign it, 9 months after the start of negotiations?
We need to look at the long game they are playing, is this "rumour" to get everyone to vote no? This will save them money and play into their hands as CC is NOT the magical charm a few vocalists think it is.
They have been planning this "attack" on housing for a long time and a cash "allowance" will make us very similar to other HK expats, to spend as you wish.
A new contract anyone?
Swire are NOT fools, treat them like that at your peril.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: hong kong
Its a great Wind up love the timing of this one .......mmmmmmm
Swire aren't fools just bully's who have got away with it for a along time
Look at the gazzillions they have lost fighting the 49ers
Base closures etc etc etc
Being A bully you pay the price eventually
Swire aren't fools just bully's who have got away with it for a along time
Look at the gazzillions they have lost fighting the 49ers
Base closures etc etc etc
Being A bully you pay the price eventually
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
From: Here ---> X
We need to look at the long game they are playing, is this "rumour" to get everyone to vote no? This will save them money and play into their hands as CC is NOT the magical charm a few vocalists think it is.
And no, a 'NO' vote does not necessarily mean CC. The pressure is on the company to come up with an acceptable offer before they can engage us on RPs, which is their priority, and housing. They're tied by the GFBA too, after all.
The few percent more they could easily give us are nothing compared to the savings they are seeking on productivity.
Oh, look. Pay raise propaganda is item #1 on the management 'wrap-up' again. That's only seven times in a row...
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
It's quite simple, ignore RP's, ignore the next step, ignore all the issues that are being used to cloud this offer....look at the offer and decide if it's good enough or not. Don't just shrug your f***ing shoulders and mutter 'the NC think it's the best we'll get so we may as well take it whilst we can'.
Focus, purely on pay. Is it good enough? Is it not?
just say NO!
Focus, purely on pay. Is it good enough? Is it not?
just say NO!
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 451
Likes: 6
From: the land of chocolate
Interestingly, the housing allowance and it being tied to an index is the only thing that protects us from inflation.
If we lose the tie to the index, we will have to fight for a rise year after year for a pay rise, only to break even.
This sucks balls.
If we lose the tie to the index, we will have to fight for a rise year after year for a pay rise, only to break even.
This sucks balls.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 165
Likes: 1
From: Europe
Yeah, isn't funny, how easy all this could be?
If they had offered 4% in January, everyone would have been happy, showing goodwill, saving money, etc...
But no, we had to fight for it. And it's because we had to fight for 9 months, that even if the offer is accepted, most pilots still won't show any sign of goodwill.
Now imagine doing the same for housing.
We'd have to come with benchmarks, show the company that rents are at an absolute high. And we'd have to accept a 20-50% reduction in housing? Maybe go on strike to keep what we have? Just to achieve what? Status quo for us, millions lost for the company?
These managers have absolutely no clue how to get the best productivity out of us.
Look at our brothers in France, Germany and soon Luxemburg.
All the managers achieved there is losing shareholders money, and losing their staff support.
If they had offered 4% in January, everyone would have been happy, showing goodwill, saving money, etc...
But no, we had to fight for it. And it's because we had to fight for 9 months, that even if the offer is accepted, most pilots still won't show any sign of goodwill.
Now imagine doing the same for housing.
We'd have to come with benchmarks, show the company that rents are at an absolute high. And we'd have to accept a 20-50% reduction in housing? Maybe go on strike to keep what we have? Just to achieve what? Status quo for us, millions lost for the company?
These managers have absolutely no clue how to get the best productivity out of us.
Look at our brothers in France, Germany and soon Luxemburg.
All the managers achieved there is losing shareholders money, and losing their staff support.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
From: Not for Sale
When C-Scale occurred very few B-Scale guys said much & did far less against it. Those of us who said no voted with our feet: 59/60. All we (like many of you) worked so hard for the "CX Career" & patiently sat by & watched career progression time wasted while waiting 3+ years for the offer promised.... Now when all the predictions rumoured may / probably come true the vitriol & threats are remarkable at best.
The AOA did nothing but for some pitiful lines in the monthly updates.
It didn't affect you/them so you did nothing.
No threats of "sick-outs" or long term "stress leave" to demonstrate against the SEVERE degradation of pilot remuneration, recruitment standards or heaven forbid, housing: the entire crux of C-Scale. Not even a "stern letter" to management. Nothing.
How many pay negotiation talks have similarly been treated with contempt from management?? And then the AOA speaks of CC, & then they sit idle to decide exactly what CC "is"..... Since 1994 it's been the same story.
Now if predictions & rumours come true C-Scale will come to bite. And so many will ask "How did this happen??"
Warham wrote that the only way to protect the present is to protect the future.
Prima Nocta. You're being bred out & didn't see it coming.
The AOA did nothing but for some pitiful lines in the monthly updates.
It didn't affect you/them so you did nothing.
No threats of "sick-outs" or long term "stress leave" to demonstrate against the SEVERE degradation of pilot remuneration, recruitment standards or heaven forbid, housing: the entire crux of C-Scale. Not even a "stern letter" to management. Nothing.
How many pay negotiation talks have similarly been treated with contempt from management?? And then the AOA speaks of CC, & then they sit idle to decide exactly what CC "is"..... Since 1994 it's been the same story.
Now if predictions & rumours come true C-Scale will come to bite. And so many will ask "How did this happen??"
Warham wrote that the only way to protect the present is to protect the future.
Prima Nocta. You're being bred out & didn't see it coming.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 26th September 2014 at 21:12.