Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Hong Kong Express

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Hong Kong Express

Old 18th Jan 2017, 05:50
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 776
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sadly not; caveat emptor as they say..Do your research..Plenty of previous comments on here and elsewhere about them.
MENELAUS is online now  
Old 18th Jan 2017, 14:21
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 48
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Globocnik View Post
Sadly not; caveat emptor as they say..Do your research..Plenty of previous comments on here and elsewhere about them.
I did so my research. So difficult for you to explain what is posted? Ridiculous
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2017, 16:50
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: FL Whatever
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Turkpilot, it's simple. The contract you are about to sign will be changed on a whim, without consultation with you or anyone else. This has already happened and has had a major financial impact on the pilots of this group of airlines.
There is a pilots association - EAPA - which in the case of HKE has a membership of at least 70%, but HKE management refuse to talk to them or recognise them. It is a legally registered Union in Hong Kong.
If you worked in THY before you may be used to having no union representation, or having management ram contract changes down your throat, so this may or may not actually bother you. It's your decision.
For the record - the pilots employed by HKE/HKA in Hong Kong are probably the cheapest A320/330 pilots anywhere in China, on the worst contract terms and conditions in China.
ROW_BOT is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 01:14
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: shoe box
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the record - living in mainland China is totally different from living in Hong Kong. There is a reason why the mainland carriers have to pay big $$$ to attract foreign pilots.....
Sue Ridgepipe is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 02:22
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On the money that HKA/HKE pay, it's not a great lifestyle. If you look at the cost of living in HK, the big $$$ suddenly seem very small $$$.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 03:52
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In someone pocket
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Turkpilot, If you have children, your money $$$ will become $. Schools here drain your money faster than a mistress, thats if you can find a school, near your area of residence. Remember the older the kids faster your money goes.

I think the money is Ok, if you are single and young or married without kids, stay your term with HKE/HKA enjoy HKG then move on to start a family.
jetjockey696 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 08:58
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: FL Whatever
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the record - living in mainland China is totally different from living in Hong Kong. There is a reason why the mainland carriers have to pay big $$$ to attract foreign pilots.....
The air is slightly dirtier. Is that what you mean?
The food and water is certain to be contaminated, rather than just 'probably' contaminated? Is that what you mean?
You'll work harder, and get more hassle from Chinese management? You should try HKA/HKE for a while - it's the same deal. HKA/HKE flies into PRC.
What's left....uh...schools? Read above comments.
Accommodation? Its cheaper and more spacious in China Mainland!
The 'social scene' is poorer? Maybe - but if you're busting your ass in HKE you won't do a lot of partying, you'll be too knackered - Max Duty/Min Rest, Single Day Off followed by 6AM start....where's the 'fun' in that? Probably better to make big money fast in PRC for a few years and then GTFO.

You'd think with all the 'benefits' (living in beautiful HKG, expanding airline etc) the cream of the industry would be beating a path to their door. But they aren't. They are struggling to attract qualified people. Guess why?

There are other airlines based in HKG, and they pay their FO's the same as a HKE/HKA Capt. and the T&C's are streets ahead (in spite of their constant whining).
HKE pilots haven't had a payrise in 5 yrs (4% p.a. inflation). Annual Leave is a pathetic 28 days. No Commuting.
Check it out.

Last edited by ROW_BOT; 19th Jan 2017 at 09:12.
ROW_BOT is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 11:44
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: canada
Age: 44
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Row_Bot is unfortunately correct on all counts.
kolob666 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2017, 18:17
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 48
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Guys, im not turkish. I go by that name as i spent a few years living there. I also spent last 6 years working in China on the 737. I don't have kids so not a problem there. My friend is a current Captain at HKE, just started last year and he is only flying about 65 hours per month. Schedule is easy.

As for the terms, yes not the best for sure. Flying in mainland china sucked balls. Pay was great, and at the company i worked for (shenzhen airlines) they treated us well and didnt bother us too much i have to admit i enjoyed it to a point. But the delays, killed me.

I do have other opportunities so i might in the end not goto HKE. What concerns me most now is not how much money i make, but i want the job with the least amount of BS to deal with.
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2017, 01:11
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Turkpilot. I can assure you that at HKE, you will have minimum money and maximum BS. Don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2017, 04:56
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 48
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Turkpilot. I can assure you that at HKE, you will have minimum money and maximum BS. Don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.
Do you work there now?
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2017, 05:14
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I work in HK, and know of what I speak. There is NO aviation job in HK that now pays enough to have a decent lifestyle, and NO aviation job in HK that provides a livable schedule. You will regret coming here.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2017, 17:32
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: canada
Age: 44
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You are right, a young single captain will be able to do quite well at HKE. An FO With 1 or two kids will barely get by. A captain with one or two kids who lives a very conservative lifestyle might manage to save 1.5 to 2 k us per month. That is a very conservative lifestyle though.
kolob666 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2017, 13:47
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 48
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If your taking home after tax 16,500 usd each month, and you can find a place in Tung Chung, or Lantau for 2500 USD, then why would you only be able to save so little???
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2017, 14:20
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 776
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You're not taking home 16.5 large a month for one thing. After tax ?
MENELAUS is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2017, 02:21
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here's the deal

Is it possible Hainan controls PPRuNe as well?

Anyone coming to Hong Kong, you should have read the posts from CX and KA boys&girls, so let me try to give you a briefing again.

HKExpress.
F/O with less than 1500 Jet Time: total package 56'250HKD/month
F/O with 1500<Jet Time<3000: total package 75'250HKD/month
F/O with more than 3000 Jet Time: total package 85'250HKD/month

Captain with less than 3000 Jet PIC: 114'000HKD/month
Captain with more than 3000 Jet PIC: 124'000HKD/month

That is up to 50hrs/month guaranteed.
From 50 to 60 hrs, F/O gets 500HKD/hour, Captain gets 800HKD/hour.
60 hours and above, F/O gets 650HKD/hour, Captain gets 1000HKD/hour.

3 levels of bonus, F/O average 60'000HKD/year, Captain 100'000HKD/year.

MPF 1500HKD/month (yes, one thousand five hundred dollars only) same for everyone.

No inflationary compensation, no increase whatsoever with the years of service. Loyalty is NOT rewarded.

28 days of Annual leave, take in blocks 8 days or more you get 4 days to travel.

No tickets back home. No Commuting. Annual Leave at the sole discretion of the GMF. Terrible most basic medical insurance by BoC. No school allowance.

F/O upgrades to Captains - 6 per year on average. Now there's 100 F/O in this company, do your math. The Director of Operations will even tell that nowhere have you signed to be upgraded to Captain.

Yes you can fly 100 hours/month and make a lot of money, but on average you can only fly 900hrs/year, so do your math on your average salary.

Cathay Dragon C-scale F/O year 1 compared to HKE Captain, having all the goodies in mind, makes only 10% less. And I haven't even started on Annual Leave.

Expenses in Hong Kong:
Housing: 25'000 - 40'000 (single or family) for anything decent.
Utilities: 4'000 - 5'000
Food: 10'000 - 20'000 (family or no family)
School: 8'000 - 13'000 (per kid, depending on the school and kids age)
Maid: 5'000 (and if you have a family you do need one in HK)
Tax: 15% if you're single, 10% if you have a family
Inflation: 4% per year

You still haven't gone out and had a beer with your friends, or paid the tickets back home.

If you're a single F/O and living modestly, or a single Captain just living OK, you could be saving some money. F/O on these terms will be struggling to get by, Captain on these terms will NOT be saving any money (or you could be saving zero anywhere else in the world, let's say your own country).

Anyone coming here will realise after a few months something is wrong.

Pilots have had enough. Turnover is 25%.

You do fly around 70 hours/month and you do it in 12 days, plus 4-5 standbys.

Everything else is below standard.

You have been warned.
KeepinItReelHK is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2017, 03:49
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quick question. Do you guys thing 30K for a decent place on South Lantau is enough ? Whats your monthly living expenses for an older ( haha - no kids anymore ) couple with a normal lifestyle. Maybe Dinner once or twice a week, not drinking really, and otherwise just normal daily live !!! Any figures would be great !! Thanks all !!!
volare_737 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2017, 06:31
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
Quick question. Do you guys thing 30K for a decent place on South Lantau is enough ? Whats your monthly living expenses for an older ( haha - no kids anymore ) couple with a normal lifestyle. Maybe Dinner once or twice a week, not drinking really, and otherwise just normal daily live !!! Any figures would be great !! Thanks all !!!
PM me. I'll give you a all the expenses.
KeepinItReelHK is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2017, 20:08
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 48
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do agree with what you said. I was thinking that at 70 hours per month plus the bonus divided by 12 would be me at 150,000 HKD per month.

I'm married so not sure what my tax rate would be.

Those expenses , well my buddy found a nice place for 20,000 per month. Eating out will kill you no doubt about it. But 4-5000 a month for utitltes? That's insane!!

So after it's all said and done I would be lucky to save 10,000 USD per month.

I figured it would be nice to be rated on both Airbus and Boeing as I am still in young 40s.

Compared to back home, Frontier airlines starts you at 39 usd per hour which means your paycheck would be about 2500 a month take home USD the first year. 3 year upgrade and even then captains are barely making it over 100,000 USD per year

So which is truly better?

Maybe I should go back to mainland. All the 737 guys making well north of 20 grand a month. But also I like an easy schedule too.

I don't need the money so badly. What I'm trying to say is I'm neither rick or poor.

But the issue (having spent 7 years there I know what I'm talking about) is the mainland bs one needs to deal with from ATC to smoking copilots to ridiculous micromanagement at times from the company.

Try flying everyday with a young guy in the jumpseat and it gets soooo tiring in a 737.

You mentioned 70 hours in 12 days??? Or maybe I didn't read that right but It seems the pilots get decent blocks of time off.

Heard they might get 330 one day
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2017, 04:19
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
True aviators only please!

A word from us, the Management:

Turkpilot, let us give you a few words to calm you down.

We have recognised Hong Kong as being the most expensive city in the world, so we found a solution.

We have started building a pilots' compound very close to the airport, where pilots will be able to live for a small deduction on their salaries. They will share their room with another pilot of their choice. There will be wifi on every floor, also bathrooms and kitchen to be used freely.

This will improve the feeling of 'brotherhood' and will improve CRM.

As we know you have some strings from your past lives (wife, kids, etc.), we will allow visits to the compound once per year during period of our choice.

Soon you will realise this is the way aviation should be, when you start getting that fuzzy feeling of the days you were prepared to 'fly for food'.

If you are not a true aviator, we do not need you to join.

Thank you for your time
singapore.snake is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.