PD still allowed?
Thread Starter
Cumguzzler- I haven't let the company know anything, unless you mean by posting on here. In that case, point taken. On the other hand, how long am I expected to be out of pocket that kind of money per month to support a cause? Its all fine and good until you have to pay up, but its a lot to ask if its going to be protracted.
Glass Half Empty- If you can cite me where PT to preferred port is required, I'll be all over it. But I can't find it, and base is much cheaper. I've also heard that PT is going to base just to prove a point when the cost is close. That's unverified info though, over dinner in ANC.
Glass Half Empty- If you can cite me where PT to preferred port is required, I'll be all over it. But I can't find it, and base is much cheaper. I've also heard that PT is going to base just to prove a point when the cost is close. That's unverified info though, over dinner in ANC.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you change the ANC-LAX PT to an ANC-MIA PD, and willing to pay any extra, is it always more cost to you or have you just had bad luck with busy days in summer so far? For Aug 1 I see 1-stop fares of 400-550, which can't be much more than the ID50 ANC-LAX, right?
If the above really doesn't work, I think your best bet is to take your allowances and rest in ANC, then the PT to LAX and then ZED home from there at all hours: I looked up Aug 1 and show 14 flights per day to MIA/FLL. Apparently Virgin will take you in the J/S at no cost and sit you in the J, if there is space, or Y.
As for starting a pattern in LAX, I understand the problem with roster changes, but it's usually pretty stable at the start, except for A days. But even then, you just go ZED and try to make it and usually will. If you show up late, or don't show up at all, so what? Either book off sick from the stress diarrhea you just got, or get a missed duty once ever 5 years. (There are a few brave guys with 3-5 MD's per year and nothing happens when it's A-day related. Not your fault the flights were full, right?).
Even then, planning just 10 days ahead of time, Spirit will do FLL-LAX for 200$ to get you to work, AA MIA-LAX for 250$, confirmed (and no jeopardy if you miss a work trip when you have a confirmed ticket to get to work). Or you can risk getting bumped by ZED and easily cover your butt if you don't make it for whatever reason (that's what everyone else is doing...). As for getting home, going LAX-MIA/FLL with cheap ZED when not dying of fatigue (after a sleep in ANC) will work almost all the time - be sure the operating crew knows you're there trying to get home.
I've heard others getting PT'd to their PP, so maybe you just weren't lucky recently due to loads/ticket prices?
One thing for sure, joining the PX crowd for eternity, before a deal is in place, is not the way to go. You won't get a good deal if you cave into this pressure, and you will pay for it forever. It sucks that you're suffering financially right now, but I hope the above can reduce this as much as possible in the interim.
Anyone have any other ideas for this guy?
If the above really doesn't work, I think your best bet is to take your allowances and rest in ANC, then the PT to LAX and then ZED home from there at all hours: I looked up Aug 1 and show 14 flights per day to MIA/FLL. Apparently Virgin will take you in the J/S at no cost and sit you in the J, if there is space, or Y.
As for starting a pattern in LAX, I understand the problem with roster changes, but it's usually pretty stable at the start, except for A days. But even then, you just go ZED and try to make it and usually will. If you show up late, or don't show up at all, so what? Either book off sick from the stress diarrhea you just got, or get a missed duty once ever 5 years. (There are a few brave guys with 3-5 MD's per year and nothing happens when it's A-day related. Not your fault the flights were full, right?).
Even then, planning just 10 days ahead of time, Spirit will do FLL-LAX for 200$ to get you to work, AA MIA-LAX for 250$, confirmed (and no jeopardy if you miss a work trip when you have a confirmed ticket to get to work). Or you can risk getting bumped by ZED and easily cover your butt if you don't make it for whatever reason (that's what everyone else is doing...). As for getting home, going LAX-MIA/FLL with cheap ZED when not dying of fatigue (after a sleep in ANC) will work almost all the time - be sure the operating crew knows you're there trying to get home.
I've heard others getting PT'd to their PP, so maybe you just weren't lucky recently due to loads/ticket prices?
One thing for sure, joining the PX crowd for eternity, before a deal is in place, is not the way to go. You won't get a good deal if you cave into this pressure, and you will pay for it forever. It sucks that you're suffering financially right now, but I hope the above can reduce this as much as possible in the interim.
Anyone have any other ideas for this guy?
Thread Starter
Iron Skillet-
Home is a Florida city about 30 minutes by air from MIA. I've never had to change a PT to PD home because I always used to PX on the freighter to MIA and pass ride across to my home airport. This is the first month I've had to deal with it without being able to PX to MIA. The date in question is either a late Saturday night or early Sunday morning PT. Company has it set up for early on a Sunday morning (5AUG), but I get to ANC Saturday evening. Fares from Travelocity start at 632 USD for a non-refundable to my home. Company fare to LAX is 307. So 300+ out of pocket if I go non-refundable. From LAX to home is somewhat less but then I've used the company ticket so its still 300 bucks out of pocket. The higher figure I quoted earlier was for a refundable ticket and roster changes are just a fact of life. I either risk it or I don't.
Based on the scheduled roster there should be a hotel room and allowances in ANC. If the flight runs late into ANC and I drop below the six hours+ for a hotel room I will be too fatigued to continue without a rest.
Yes, Virgin will take jump seaters, as well as USAir some of the time. That's with a seat in back, since we aren't CASS certified and never will be. Virgin doesn't go to my home city and USAir will be full to the CLT and PHX hubs on weekend days from LAX, or PHX from ANC. Didn't know Virgin would sit us in J class.
I don't worry too much about starting in LAX. Its my base, and if they build a trip from there so be it. The commute is on me and I buy a ticket, as you say it usually doesn't change. I went back there to go to the passenger fleet and bypassed on the 777 to reduce my commute. It was my choice. But I almost always start out of MIA because there just aren't that many guys on the preferred port and the airplane goes there most days. Likewise, if I operate to LAX and finish there its my base. That doesn't happen often anymore either, although they will do that to keep me under guarantee. Commute is on me, no complaints. Where I have the problem is being PT'd to LAX from ANC at the end of a trip where I used to PX to MIA, because LAX is cheaper. Especially when I bring 074 into ANC and have to watch it leave for MIA without me. That's a sh** sandwich and the only thing that's cropped up as a result of this pissing contest. That's my only issue (besides Y class), because they can't operate me twice back to MIA in a month without me going into OT, so I'm gonna get one of these a month. There'll always be one PT or PX sector on the backside.
Way too much of a difference in fares between ANC-LAX and ANC-MIA so I'll never see PT MIA. But I will call and request it just to hear it first hand.
"A" days. Am I responsible for LAX or MIA? The answer is yes. LOL. Again, I don't sweat these too much. I've had two MDs related to LAX "A" day call outs in eight years. One I screwed up and didn't realize it was an "A" and on one I misconnected due to a delayed flight on a full fare paid ticket bought when I got called out. There are two times I check Crew Direct....during the required time on the day before an "A", and when notified of a roster change arriving in HKG. That's it. Roster changes have diminished the less I've logged in.
I have played this game a long time.....starting at the regionals many years ago. The best deal is always the shortest route home with the least connections, and for me that's unfortunately the freighter to MIA and American across to home. I do appreciate your concern and suggestions, and the primary motivating factor in me not signing that letter is that its irrevocable.
Home is a Florida city about 30 minutes by air from MIA. I've never had to change a PT to PD home because I always used to PX on the freighter to MIA and pass ride across to my home airport. This is the first month I've had to deal with it without being able to PX to MIA. The date in question is either a late Saturday night or early Sunday morning PT. Company has it set up for early on a Sunday morning (5AUG), but I get to ANC Saturday evening. Fares from Travelocity start at 632 USD for a non-refundable to my home. Company fare to LAX is 307. So 300+ out of pocket if I go non-refundable. From LAX to home is somewhat less but then I've used the company ticket so its still 300 bucks out of pocket. The higher figure I quoted earlier was for a refundable ticket and roster changes are just a fact of life. I either risk it or I don't.
Based on the scheduled roster there should be a hotel room and allowances in ANC. If the flight runs late into ANC and I drop below the six hours+ for a hotel room I will be too fatigued to continue without a rest.
Yes, Virgin will take jump seaters, as well as USAir some of the time. That's with a seat in back, since we aren't CASS certified and never will be. Virgin doesn't go to my home city and USAir will be full to the CLT and PHX hubs on weekend days from LAX, or PHX from ANC. Didn't know Virgin would sit us in J class.
I don't worry too much about starting in LAX. Its my base, and if they build a trip from there so be it. The commute is on me and I buy a ticket, as you say it usually doesn't change. I went back there to go to the passenger fleet and bypassed on the 777 to reduce my commute. It was my choice. But I almost always start out of MIA because there just aren't that many guys on the preferred port and the airplane goes there most days. Likewise, if I operate to LAX and finish there its my base. That doesn't happen often anymore either, although they will do that to keep me under guarantee. Commute is on me, no complaints. Where I have the problem is being PT'd to LAX from ANC at the end of a trip where I used to PX to MIA, because LAX is cheaper. Especially when I bring 074 into ANC and have to watch it leave for MIA without me. That's a sh** sandwich and the only thing that's cropped up as a result of this pissing contest. That's my only issue (besides Y class), because they can't operate me twice back to MIA in a month without me going into OT, so I'm gonna get one of these a month. There'll always be one PT or PX sector on the backside.
Way too much of a difference in fares between ANC-LAX and ANC-MIA so I'll never see PT MIA. But I will call and request it just to hear it first hand.
"A" days. Am I responsible for LAX or MIA? The answer is yes. LOL. Again, I don't sweat these too much. I've had two MDs related to LAX "A" day call outs in eight years. One I screwed up and didn't realize it was an "A" and on one I misconnected due to a delayed flight on a full fare paid ticket bought when I got called out. There are two times I check Crew Direct....during the required time on the day before an "A", and when notified of a roster change arriving in HKG. That's it. Roster changes have diminished the less I've logged in.
I have played this game a long time.....starting at the regionals many years ago. The best deal is always the shortest route home with the least connections, and for me that's unfortunately the freighter to MIA and American across to home. I do appreciate your concern and suggestions, and the primary motivating factor in me not signing that letter is that its irrevocable.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, what would happen if every single one of you would cancel your preferred ports, all on the same day so it kicks in at the same time in the next quarter or whatever the rule is. You're giving them the option of 2 ports when it's convenient to them, and quadrupling the chances of roster disruptions (each port can change before and during a pattern) but you're not really getting any good will back, so why help them out and set yourselves up for more disruption?
Nobody on a PP means a lot more PX/PT and a lot more hotels and allowances. That should get some attention, don't you think?
Nobody on a PP means a lot more PX/PT and a lot more hotels and allowances. That should get some attention, don't you think?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
8driver,
as an interested observer, who is not on the freighter fleet, I sympathize with your situation.
My take on it is that no freighter PX is a new concept, and it seems sensible that it might take a few months before they work it out properly. I know it's a rough ride for you and others in the same situation, but the philosophy behind encouraging everyone to not sign is that an improvement should naturally evolve - it just takes time.
Out of interest, since the start of no freighter PXing, have they at any stage asked you as a "one off" to PX on the freighter to your PP?
as an interested observer, who is not on the freighter fleet, I sympathize with your situation.
My take on it is that no freighter PX is a new concept, and it seems sensible that it might take a few months before they work it out properly. I know it's a rough ride for you and others in the same situation, but the philosophy behind encouraging everyone to not sign is that an improvement should naturally evolve - it just takes time.
Out of interest, since the start of no freighter PXing, have they at any stage asked you as a "one off" to PX on the freighter to your PP?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cupboard
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find Travelocity to usually be the most expensive search engine. Go with Kayak.com and it will search everything at the same time: All the airlines' sites, Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, Priceline, Mobissimo, and more. Sometimes AA is not searched, though, and some LCC's.
It really doesn't help that you have to fly from the top left corner of the continent (ANC) to your base in the bottom left corner of the continent (LAX) to find your way to the bottom right corner of the continent (MIA) to fly another leg to where you live....Just about the worst case I've heard.
It really doesn't help that you have to fly from the top left corner of the continent (ANC) to your base in the bottom left corner of the continent (LAX) to find your way to the bottom right corner of the continent (MIA) to fly another leg to where you live....Just about the worst case I've heard.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the company would properly staff ANC and/or use more SOs to/from HKG, none of this would be necessary because 8driver would be operating to and from his base or preferred port rather than positioning. It's not rocket science really. They are basing relief pilots in LAX when they really need them in ANC. Who's genius idea was that? I'm guessing it had something to do with recruiting onto an inferior freighter contract and having base location seal the deal. So they created the problem, they can choke on it...
Thread Starter
Iron Skillet- Getting everyone to withdraw a preferred port would be a tough proposition, I don't know if we'd have the unity to do it. It would make things interesting.
Broadband Circuit- I'm on leave the second half of this month so I had no PT sectors build on this July roster. Everything was operating in and out of MIA. The first place that could occur would be that August PT we've been discussing, so I'll see what they do. My reading of the GMA letter indicated that they could only do that for roster changes that occur after the roster is published. So the sector I have next month wouldn't qualify.
Hopefully as ticket costs mount they'll schedule less PT.
Broadband Circuit- I'm on leave the second half of this month so I had no PT sectors build on this July roster. Everything was operating in and out of MIA. The first place that could occur would be that August PT we've been discussing, so I'll see what they do. My reading of the GMA letter indicated that they could only do that for roster changes that occur after the roster is published. So the sector I have next month wouldn't qualify.
Hopefully as ticket costs mount they'll schedule less PT.
