Retirement at 68
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
raven, you're such a typical wank*r. I bet you have long sleeves and cufflinks!
So, we all have P1 ratings and do the same sim checks (well, I must say that those for captains are easier than those for FOs) and you call "upgrade" "PROPER?"
Upgrade at Cathay Pathetic is purely being able to make it through the demeaning negative criticism without spoiling the ego of the wank*r trainer who doesn't remove his four bars while he's training a new captain because no one would recognize him as an authority figure if those four bars were not sitting on his shoulders.
A proper upgrade...
but your limit is still 15 knots until you complete a proper upgrade.
Upgrade at Cathay Pathetic is purely being able to make it through the demeaning negative criticism without spoiling the ego of the wank*r trainer who doesn't remove his four bars while he's training a new captain because no one would recognize him as an authority figure if those four bars were not sitting on his shoulders.
A proper upgrade...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cathay City
Age: 65
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jesus. Give it a rest, will you.
If we're going to debate skillsets, then let's focus on the real issue at hand: our sole recruitment source is a stream of cadets who spend 3-4 years PXing before being given the controls of a 300ton+ airplane.
Whatever skills STP, 711, Nitpicker, Iron Skillet and Raven11 may (or may not) have, they're certainly going to need them as they (push/pull/roll/kick/add thrust/remove thrust/take command) [delete as required] to keep this show safely on the road from the left seat.
A 10-20% mix of cadets is a great thing and can certainly be managed (and trained) accordingly, but a 100% source is way beyond control.
With so many 'senior skill-sets' in the upper levels of this organisation (you name the background, we have it), it defies belief that we're watching this happen. The very gentlemen, who based on their lifetime of experience are perhaps the most qualified to speak against this nonsense, portray the loudest silence only broken by the clinging of coffers in hallways of power.
If we're going to debate skillsets, then let's focus on the real issue at hand: our sole recruitment source is a stream of cadets who spend 3-4 years PXing before being given the controls of a 300ton+ airplane.
Whatever skills STP, 711, Nitpicker, Iron Skillet and Raven11 may (or may not) have, they're certainly going to need them as they (push/pull/roll/kick/add thrust/remove thrust/take command) [delete as required] to keep this show safely on the road from the left seat.
A 10-20% mix of cadets is a great thing and can certainly be managed (and trained) accordingly, but a 100% source is way beyond control.
With so many 'senior skill-sets' in the upper levels of this organisation (you name the background, we have it), it defies belief that we're watching this happen. The very gentlemen, who based on their lifetime of experience are perhaps the most qualified to speak against this nonsense, portray the loudest silence only broken by the clinging of coffers in hallways of power.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: HKG
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
whackthemole,
Well said, I couldn't agree with you more.
It is indeed shocking that the entry pilot requirements for this Major, International, Widebody jet airline are 0-100 hours. It's hard to imagine that if you have couple thousand hours of Navajo or King Air time you are WAY overqualified for this job and CX is not interested in you! Just think about that, 100% of the pilots joining this airline have ZERO experience. (Yes - 200 hours is the same as zero!). Amazing, and probably completely unprecedented for Major carrier.
There are many people that are deeply concerned about this and it is indeed a shame that those with the power are letting it happen.
Well said, I couldn't agree with you more.
It is indeed shocking that the entry pilot requirements for this Major, International, Widebody jet airline are 0-100 hours. It's hard to imagine that if you have couple thousand hours of Navajo or King Air time you are WAY overqualified for this job and CX is not interested in you! Just think about that, 100% of the pilots joining this airline have ZERO experience. (Yes - 200 hours is the same as zero!). Amazing, and probably completely unprecedented for Major carrier.
There are many people that are deeply concerned about this and it is indeed a shame that those with the power are letting it happen.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Raven,
I am curious as to your posts. You certainly sound like a stereotype elderly westerner who is unusually defensive. Do you have regular conflict in the cockpit? I will soon be joining CX and I am interested to know why one ends up so extremely bitter? Although I have not yet done any flying, I can assure you that others of your vintage will be surprised at how quickly our skills will eclipse yours
I am curious as to your posts. You certainly sound like a stereotype elderly westerner who is unusually defensive. Do you have regular conflict in the cockpit? I will soon be joining CX and I am interested to know why one ends up so extremely bitter? Although I have not yet done any flying, I can assure you that others of your vintage will be surprised at how quickly our skills will eclipse yours
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Zone of Alienation
Age: 79
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am curious to know if "Primed" is indeed an i-cadet or a wannabe. It is doubtful any serious first-world organization would consider this bloke to handle an airplane, much less a delivery lorry. If CX is truly a "one crash" airline, then Air China must be highly willing to take a serious haircut on their investment.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: HKG
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..just hope not too many colleagues from other airlines reading this thread!!
quite weird! barely to understand how some of these "fellows"
want to command an aircraft. ..hopefully some of them will master to "resume their command of life" after they retire-without all the "appreciation" being a commander of a LH aircraft..honorable peers are not judged by their job, but by their attitude and personality!!
quite weird! barely to understand how some of these "fellows"
want to command an aircraft. ..hopefully some of them will master to "resume their command of life" after they retire-without all the "appreciation" being a commander of a LH aircraft..honorable peers are not judged by their job, but by their attitude and personality!!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oval said...
"Upgrade at Cathay Pathetic is purely being able to make it through the demeaning negative criticism without spoiling the ego of the wank*r trainer who doesn't remove his four bars while he's training a new captain because no one would recognize him as an authority figure if those four bars were not sitting on his shoulders."
Does lashing out at others make you feel more like a man?? Try debating with some measured words without the use of adolescent tone, or symbology.
Oval, I've been involved in the training departments of both military and civil aviation even before I joined Cathay. So I think I can make an objective assessment about the different training systems in aviation. Cathay's training system is not perfect, but it is one of the best I've ever been involved with....and I would put it up against any other system out there.
If you really do think that Cathay is "pathetic" and that training pilots are "wank*rs" with ego problems, then I'd say your comments say more about who you are than your intended targets. Remember this thread is supposed to be about going beyond normal retirement age....unless you learn to relax the issue will prove moot.
We all have to pass annual checks and upgrades...it's part of the job. Try showing a bit more class.
And then there's Primed.....
Well, in 40 years of flying you aren't the first one just out of diapers to spout off about how good a pilot you would make, and how quickly your skills will outshine mine.....and that without even having completed your first flying lesson yet (my, my, how our recruiting has changed).
I wish you luck and hope that in 40 years (if you last that long) you'll finally achieve your goal.
"Upgrade at Cathay Pathetic is purely being able to make it through the demeaning negative criticism without spoiling the ego of the wank*r trainer who doesn't remove his four bars while he's training a new captain because no one would recognize him as an authority figure if those four bars were not sitting on his shoulders."
Does lashing out at others make you feel more like a man?? Try debating with some measured words without the use of adolescent tone, or symbology.
Oval, I've been involved in the training departments of both military and civil aviation even before I joined Cathay. So I think I can make an objective assessment about the different training systems in aviation. Cathay's training system is not perfect, but it is one of the best I've ever been involved with....and I would put it up against any other system out there.
If you really do think that Cathay is "pathetic" and that training pilots are "wank*rs" with ego problems, then I'd say your comments say more about who you are than your intended targets. Remember this thread is supposed to be about going beyond normal retirement age....unless you learn to relax the issue will prove moot.
We all have to pass annual checks and upgrades...it's part of the job. Try showing a bit more class.
And then there's Primed.....
Well, in 40 years of flying you aren't the first one just out of diapers to spout off about how good a pilot you would make, and how quickly your skills will outshine mine.....and that without even having completed your first flying lesson yet (my, my, how our recruiting has changed).
I wish you luck and hope that in 40 years (if you last that long) you'll finally achieve your goal.
Last edited by raven11; 21st Apr 2012 at 20:11.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: VHHH
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone wrote about 'showing a bit of class'. I think it is applicable to all of us who post on this forum as professional pilots.
How could we expect to command respect and trust from the public with posts like some of those on this thread?
How could we expect to command respect and trust from the public with posts like some of those on this thread?
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I stand by my statements. I'm not saying that all trainers are wank*rs. In fact, most are not. But there are a few that are so stereotypical of the British boarding school, long-sleeved, cufflinked, "fast jet" (what's a slow jet?) mentality that they overshadow the good ones.
I still find it hard to believe, raven, that you think someone who has a P1 rating, who has the same checkrides and makes the same decisions (how many times do you see a decision made at Cathay without the captain asking "Everybody happy with that?") as the captain has to go through a "proper upgrade."
An upgrade at Cathay can never be called "training." It is pure "checking."
I still find it hard to believe, raven, that you think someone who has a P1 rating, who has the same checkrides and makes the same decisions (how many times do you see a decision made at Cathay without the captain asking "Everybody happy with that?") as the captain has to go through a "proper upgrade."
An upgrade at Cathay can never be called "training." It is pure "checking."
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oval....please tell me your post is a wind up....you can't be serious? If you really do feel this way, then you are diminishing the very profession you belong to. I should expect this kind of reasoning from someone like Primed, but not from you!
For goodness sake, one gets a P1 rating when you upgrade from S/O to F/O....that doesn't make him a Captain....it makes him a co-pilot. Do I really need to explain the difference between a brand new F/O and a Command Course grad? Between someone with 500 hours and someone with 10000 hours; between someone who has not qualified by virtue of inadequate hours and someone with the hours; between someone who has completed a command course and someone who has not. Do I really need to do that? Would you want to be, would you want your family to be, anywhere near an airplane landing in a typhoon, or in an airplane experiencing any number of technical failures, with a brand new F/O at the controls?
Does someone with a shinny new P1 rating really make the same decisions? Really? When a Captain asks what everyone in the cockpit thinks, do you think he's taking a vote? Are you perhaps confusing good CRM with command? Just who is licensed, by virtue of their experience and qualifications, and held responsible, by the CAD to make the final call?
We pilots are our own worst enemies in how we diminish our profession. And by doing so we play right into the bean counters impression of us.....we help them achieve their goal of diminishing what we do.
In the old days (pre-911) when we used to allow passengers into the cockpit, and when the wide eyed pax would inevitably look around the cockpit with awe, they would always ask with incredulity: how do you guys remember all these switches/dials?
Do you know what we all said? We said: "Ahh...Schucks Mam, it's nothing....nothing at all....a monkey could do it." Well guess what guys? After 50 years of telling people this self deprecating crap....they took our word for it...they believed us!
Do you ever, or have you ever, heard a Doctor, Lawyer, or ANY other profession, diminish what they do like we do? No other profession does this.....just us.
If you still haven't read Ernest Gann's book Fate is the Hunter, or The High and the Mighty, you need to that. What he wrote about flying, all those years ago, remains pertinent today. If not more so.
For goodness sake, one gets a P1 rating when you upgrade from S/O to F/O....that doesn't make him a Captain....it makes him a co-pilot. Do I really need to explain the difference between a brand new F/O and a Command Course grad? Between someone with 500 hours and someone with 10000 hours; between someone who has not qualified by virtue of inadequate hours and someone with the hours; between someone who has completed a command course and someone who has not. Do I really need to do that? Would you want to be, would you want your family to be, anywhere near an airplane landing in a typhoon, or in an airplane experiencing any number of technical failures, with a brand new F/O at the controls?
Does someone with a shinny new P1 rating really make the same decisions? Really? When a Captain asks what everyone in the cockpit thinks, do you think he's taking a vote? Are you perhaps confusing good CRM with command? Just who is licensed, by virtue of their experience and qualifications, and held responsible, by the CAD to make the final call?
We pilots are our own worst enemies in how we diminish our profession. And by doing so we play right into the bean counters impression of us.....we help them achieve their goal of diminishing what we do.
In the old days (pre-911) when we used to allow passengers into the cockpit, and when the wide eyed pax would inevitably look around the cockpit with awe, they would always ask with incredulity: how do you guys remember all these switches/dials?
Do you know what we all said? We said: "Ahh...Schucks Mam, it's nothing....nothing at all....a monkey could do it." Well guess what guys? After 50 years of telling people this self deprecating crap....they took our word for it...they believed us!
Do you ever, or have you ever, heard a Doctor, Lawyer, or ANY other profession, diminish what they do like we do? No other profession does this.....just us.
If you still haven't read Ernest Gann's book Fate is the Hunter, or The High and the Mighty, you need to that. What he wrote about flying, all those years ago, remains pertinent today. If not more so.
Last edited by raven11; 22nd Apr 2012 at 06:26.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: where Palin isn't
Age: 54
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Primed" good god I hope you are just a wind up merchant.You haven't as much kicked a tire/tyre on a training a/c and are smarting off to senior CX crew! Every pilot on the planet remembers their first solo,some with confidence most with sphincter twinges so i suggest you atleast get to that stage before you decide who you will be checking to line.Ofcourse this comes with the caveat that you do actually have to 'solo' before joining as a SO?
Guest
Posts: n/a
I won't be needing any favors to be successful in my flight checks as I am confident I can fly the numbers. They were able to put a monkey into space... How many of you have been to space? I think some of the so called senior captains may become a little intimidated when they realize the level of intelligence that some of the new breed of SO's have. The authority gradient might become a bit flatter