Retirement at 68
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Tornado,
That would be true, were it not for the contract everyone (before) signed that provided a certain rate of progression in pay and benefits through seniority-based system up to the maximum age of 55. No different than all those guys who joined the army or air force with a contract for a certain number of years, or any other contract. Nobody said you have to "retire" at 55: That is just when the contract you signed expires. You can work anywhere else you wish, but you don't get to benefit from the progression brought on by the contract (others ahead of you had to retire at 55) and then complain that it's not fair that you have to go then too.
Perhaps those who think working as long as they wish in a seniority-based career should lose 10 yrs of seniority progression when they turn 55, and go back to the pay and benefits (and rank, and requests, and leave, etc.) they could hold after losing 10 years of seniority, as has effectively happened to those who had 10 years (or so) added to their progression with RA65....then we'll see how much they love going to work still at age 56-65?
That would be true, were it not for the contract everyone (before) signed that provided a certain rate of progression in pay and benefits through seniority-based system up to the maximum age of 55. No different than all those guys who joined the army or air force with a contract for a certain number of years, or any other contract. Nobody said you have to "retire" at 55: That is just when the contract you signed expires. You can work anywhere else you wish, but you don't get to benefit from the progression brought on by the contract (others ahead of you had to retire at 55) and then complain that it's not fair that you have to go then too.
Perhaps those who think working as long as they wish in a seniority-based career should lose 10 yrs of seniority progression when they turn 55, and go back to the pay and benefits (and rank, and requests, and leave, etc.) they could hold after losing 10 years of seniority, as has effectively happened to those who had 10 years (or so) added to their progression with RA65....then we'll see how much they love going to work still at age 56-65?
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Iron,
So all those B scalers who have signed COS 08 should just throw their hands up and retire at the original 55 years of age also...? Or just the A scalers...? I suppose the new joiners who have joined without housing should then not accept housing if the company offers it in the future...? The fact is everyone will take an improvement if it's offered. Additionally, to suggest that 'some' pilots should not take an extension in working years, yet other 'should' be able to take advantage of it is basically you playing 'god' (no pun intended in your case!) with the determination of such categories. Who decides who should and who shouldn't. The fact is that people in all age and seniority groups have taken advantage of the extension to age 65. The fact is that an individual has a right to work until whatever age they can no longer do the job. You (or I) do not have the right to determine someone else's working longevity. The matte is settled at this point....there is no going back. In fact, I suspect that quite soon it will be illegal to force someone to stop working based on age. Cat 1 Medical will be the determining factor. As an aside to your argument. If you had joined an airline back in the US/Canada/Europe, you would be facing exactly the same issue. They have all incorporated the age 65 rule. But I suppose it's only CX pilots who should supposedly show some altruism and deny themselves the additional economic security of the extra decade of work.
So all those B scalers who have signed COS 08 should just throw their hands up and retire at the original 55 years of age also...? Or just the A scalers...? I suppose the new joiners who have joined without housing should then not accept housing if the company offers it in the future...? The fact is everyone will take an improvement if it's offered. Additionally, to suggest that 'some' pilots should not take an extension in working years, yet other 'should' be able to take advantage of it is basically you playing 'god' (no pun intended in your case!) with the determination of such categories. Who decides who should and who shouldn't. The fact is that people in all age and seniority groups have taken advantage of the extension to age 65. The fact is that an individual has a right to work until whatever age they can no longer do the job. You (or I) do not have the right to determine someone else's working longevity. The matte is settled at this point....there is no going back. In fact, I suspect that quite soon it will be illegal to force someone to stop working based on age. Cat 1 Medical will be the determining factor. As an aside to your argument. If you had joined an airline back in the US/Canada/Europe, you would be facing exactly the same issue. They have all incorporated the age 65 rule. But I suppose it's only CX pilots who should supposedly show some altruism and deny themselves the additional economic security of the extra decade of work.
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Tornado Ali.....well said totally agree. It was an issue which was almost unsolvable and because of entrenched and divided views the company knew it and once again unilaterally imposed a fix to suit themselves with massive cost savings straight into the bottom line.
The money spent on bypass pay and productivity gains from increased retirement age should have been bundled up and used for increasing increments particularly for first officers and the cutting salaries based on age, should have been stopped in its tracks.
However CX got what they wanted.....increased retirement age and by pass pay being funded by age discrimination pay cuts to those over 55 and increments cutting out way too early. Our inability (mainly our younger crew) to recognize that it was inevitable RA 55 was history has led us to kicking an own goal or two.
In the mean time I am curious to know ...is bypass pay still being paid out to folks on a base who have not accepted a command in Hong Kong?
The money spent on bypass pay and productivity gains from increased retirement age should have been bundled up and used for increasing increments particularly for first officers and the cutting salaries based on age, should have been stopped in its tracks.
However CX got what they wanted.....increased retirement age and by pass pay being funded by age discrimination pay cuts to those over 55 and increments cutting out way too early. Our inability (mainly our younger crew) to recognize that it was inevitable RA 55 was history has led us to kicking an own goal or two.
In the mean time I am curious to know ...is bypass pay still being paid out to folks on a base who have not accepted a command in Hong Kong?
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..ahh yes, the old 'im too bored to check' brush off. The usual resort of those who can't properly support their argument. As I said, those who are working at most North American airlines are now working to 65. It's pretty simple really.....even for you.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Old men that can't accept there is an end to everything..
The list of these pathetic fools is endless : frail African dictators, aging premier league footballer yobs, the pope, Jeremy Clarkson, and now the 65 year old pilots who want to go on, of course in the left hand seat with all the benefits, seniority etc.
A social life orbiting around The Stauntons ( HKG base) or the Gay Bar ( not HKG based),no friends,no money even sometimes, estranged wife and a humiliated domestic helper at home, sweating when the visibility falls below 2000m, what a way to end a "career"...
The list of these pathetic fools is endless : frail African dictators, aging premier league footballer yobs, the pope, Jeremy Clarkson, and now the 65 year old pilots who want to go on, of course in the left hand seat with all the benefits, seniority etc.
A social life orbiting around The Stauntons ( HKG base) or the Gay Bar ( not HKG based),no friends,no money even sometimes, estranged wife and a humiliated domestic helper at home, sweating when the visibility falls below 2000m, what a way to end a "career"...
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...or, someone who takes pride in their profession, enjoys the lifestyle, still enjoys the challenge, and likes a reason to get up in the morning (and doesn't give a sh*t what the skaterboarders think).
Join Date: Dec 2009
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As someone else pointed out, you're not a professional: You're an employee.
The lifestyle? It's great, except that part about working, and so often being surrounded by people you'd rather not be surrounded by instead of those who matter (assuming you matter to anyone).
If you regularly or frequently feel challenged, you're got some serious issues with reality. Once every 10 years doesn't make up for the extreme nothingness of every other flight.
No other reason to get up in the morning? No wonder you'd rather work than live.
Nobody cares what skateboarders think. I'd venture to say nobody really cares what you think, either.
Enjoy your next awesome take off and landing! Note: It will be exactly like everyone else's 1000000 others that day, and every day. Woo hoo!
Come on, man...oh, I get it now, you're just joking about all that! Got me, funny guy!
The lifestyle? It's great, except that part about working, and so often being surrounded by people you'd rather not be surrounded by instead of those who matter (assuming you matter to anyone).
If you regularly or frequently feel challenged, you're got some serious issues with reality. Once every 10 years doesn't make up for the extreme nothingness of every other flight.
No other reason to get up in the morning? No wonder you'd rather work than live.
Nobody cares what skateboarders think. I'd venture to say nobody really cares what you think, either.
Enjoy your next awesome take off and landing! Note: It will be exactly like everyone else's 1000000 others that day, and every day. Woo hoo!
Come on, man...oh, I get it now, you're just joking about all that! Got me, funny guy!
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I was thinking after 65 I could "reverse mortgage" my career by paying them to come to work. The longer they let me work, the higher the rate. That way they can cover the hull loss when I finally take my last breath, unless of course that few hundred hour cadet FO can save the day.
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My final offer.
73, comuting roster in EConomy class ( I'll pay half!)
No housing,
I'll only do night flight.
You must allow my grand child who is 15 to join the cadet program, which of course he will pay for!
Of course I'll accept FO wages due to my reduced mental capacity and experience.
73, comuting roster in EConomy class ( I'll pay half!)
No housing,
I'll only do night flight.
You must allow my grand child who is 15 to join the cadet program, which of course he will pay for!
Of course I'll accept FO wages due to my reduced mental capacity and experience.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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All these posts just reflect the CRM issues in this company ,..it's not easy to find another pilot body with so many overestimated (old) individuals like in CX - although quite limited in their operating skills and leadership
Join Date: Oct 2007
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So now young pilots like Climbout and his buddies, who everyone knows are the real stick and rudder aviators in our midst, are calling the senior pilots of this Company..."overestimated (old)...and quite limited in their operating skills and leadership..."
Ha, Ha, Ha! What is this...irony??
This latest slur from a group of loudmouths with experience levels inversely proportional to their ego and who are part of a dwindling number of poorly experienced "pilots" to accept the ever diminishing and watered down benefits package offered by Cathay.
What's more, only after Cathay lowered...and lowered....and lowered....what was being offered.
And now we are reaching out to third world countries in an attempt to recruit even more "high quality" recruits like Climbout and his buddies...?
Never mind those "overestimated" pilots they hired twenty years ago.....I guess that when it comes to skillful pilots, there is no relationship between skill level and flying hours in a logbook. To the bean counters, and obviously pilots like Climbout, less is more!
Ha, Ha, Ha! What is this...irony??
This latest slur from a group of loudmouths with experience levels inversely proportional to their ego and who are part of a dwindling number of poorly experienced "pilots" to accept the ever diminishing and watered down benefits package offered by Cathay.
What's more, only after Cathay lowered...and lowered....and lowered....what was being offered.
And now we are reaching out to third world countries in an attempt to recruit even more "high quality" recruits like Climbout and his buddies...?
Never mind those "overestimated" pilots they hired twenty years ago.....I guess that when it comes to skillful pilots, there is no relationship between skill level and flying hours in a logbook. To the bean counters, and obviously pilots like Climbout, less is more!
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Climbout....bravo! That the most astute observation I have seen!:
cxorcist...not only will the 300 hour cadet F/O save the day, he will do so with the finese and elan that will completely floor you that you will find yourself staring at the sandals of good old St Pete.
:cxorcist...not only will the 300 hour cadet F/O save the day, he will do so with the finese and elan that will completely floor you that you will find yourself staring at the sandals of good old St Pete.
Here we go again..........
I'll stay as long as I damn well 'need to' and I'd expect that in 20 years you'll do the same thing.
I'm sick to death of these young wet behind the Ears types moaning about their senior peers, just nick off and wait ya turn like I had to do for around 13 years as an FO.........
I'll stay as long as I damn well 'need to' and I'd expect that in 20 years you'll do the same thing.
I'm sick to death of these young wet behind the Ears types moaning about their senior peers, just nick off and wait ya turn like I had to do for around 13 years as an FO.........
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Climbout - I don't think it is hard at all to find what you are referring to as "old and overestimated". Just about every airline in the world has guys working to 65, and all of them approaching that age who are honest with themselves will admit that their best days are behind them. That does not mean they cannot still be great captains and try to stuff a few more dollars under the mattress for retirement. That said, we do have some CRM issues at CX.
Gerago - Are you willing to bet 300+ lives on that claim of yours when the typhoon flags are flying in the Fragrant Harbour? I'm not so confident having seen quite a few low-time cadet FOs at the wheel. They don't have a 10kt crosswind limit for no reason.
Gerago - Are you willing to bet 300+ lives on that claim of yours when the typhoon flags are flying in the Fragrant Harbour? I'm not so confident having seen quite a few low-time cadet FOs at the wheel. They don't have a 10kt crosswind limit for no reason.