Retirement at 68
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And it's oh so entertaining to watch an 'experienced' pax Captain take a max weight freighter in to Mumbai on a dark and wet night with the lowly freighter Captain doing relief and smiling to himself from the jump seat.
Freighter Captains go to the difficult destinations, with crappy weather on hopeless rosters that mean they're constantly fatigued. 20 years of flying LHR-HKG-LHR twice a month doesn't really count as 'experience' in my book
Freighter Captains go to the difficult destinations, with crappy weather on hopeless rosters that mean they're constantly fatigued. 20 years of flying LHR-HKG-LHR twice a month doesn't really count as 'experience' in my book
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Oval.....
For the love of....
I'm not demonizing freighter pilots for goodness sake....just those who make silly arguments that unwittingly diminish our profession.
As I said to you in an earlier post....you have status issues. If you prefer the American system...then exercise your options.
Cathay's training system, while not perfect, is second to none.
For the love of....
I'm not demonizing freighter pilots for goodness sake....just those who make silly arguments that unwittingly diminish our profession.
As I said to you in an earlier post....you have status issues. If you prefer the American system...then exercise your options.
Cathay's training system, while not perfect, is second to none.
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Cathay's training system, while not perfect, is second to none.
Enough raven,
I have been following this thread with regard to some of the posts about the Cx training/ checking system.
Cx has a training system that allows a certain Canadian stc(a very short one) to put a piece of paper with the word "bomb" written on it in the admin folder under the 2nd observer seat to see if you do the flight deck check properly!
That's training is it?
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raven11,
Maybe I just had a revelation.
If you think I am trying to diminish our profession by my statements, let me put it this way: as all Cathay pilots who are P1 rated are, in my opinion, CHECKED to the same standards, it is Cathay's choice to not give them all four stripes and pay them accordingly. US airlines put two captains and two first officers on long international flights. Cathay is the one diminishing our profession, not I.
I have no status issues. I'm a pilot, period.
Maybe I just had a revelation.
If you think I am trying to diminish our profession by my statements, let me put it this way: as all Cathay pilots who are P1 rated are, in my opinion, CHECKED to the same standards, it is Cathay's choice to not give them all four stripes and pay them accordingly. US airlines put two captains and two first officers on long international flights. Cathay is the one diminishing our profession, not I.
I have no status issues. I'm a pilot, period.
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1200...
Ohhhhh, how witty. It would seem that you are incapable of offering anything substantive to this debate other than an adolescent quip? You should stick to texting.
By the way, I'm quite comfortable here on earth. It's where I've had my feet firmly planted during my forty year career as a pilot. How many hours do you have? Just how long have you been flying for?
Please, grace us with a well reasoned and mature contribution to this debate.....?
Ohhhhh, how witty. It would seem that you are incapable of offering anything substantive to this debate other than an adolescent quip? You should stick to texting.
By the way, I'm quite comfortable here on earth. It's where I've had my feet firmly planted during my forty year career as a pilot. How many hours do you have? Just how long have you been flying for?
Please, grace us with a well reasoned and mature contribution to this debate.....?
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Please, grace us with a well reasoned and mature contribution to this debate.....?
How many hours do you have? Just how long have you been flying for?
Comments regarding willy waving isn't the most mature contribution either!
Anyway, care to comment on my posting regarding the "training" system?
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Crwjerk, I know that and I also know that the vast majority of our pax Captains would have no problem with it in the slightest. It just amuses me that there are some in the company who view freighter Captains as less competent or inferior.
This attitude is often from those who have spent a significant portion of their career flying the same route for 20+ years and landing at the same weight every time. Take these guys out of their comfort zone and send them to Mumbai in the crappy weather and nightmare ATC that we all know so well, landing at 300T, and some of them are nervous wrecks when they start the approach.
The point that Oval was trying to make in respect of experience is valid. I have flown with many excellent FOs who have remarkable backgrounds, often with 1000s of hours in command, are clearly competent, and ready to move to the left seat straightaway. It's not the CX command course that gives them these attributes, they already have them.
This attitude is often from those who have spent a significant portion of their career flying the same route for 20+ years and landing at the same weight every time. Take these guys out of their comfort zone and send them to Mumbai in the crappy weather and nightmare ATC that we all know so well, landing at 300T, and some of them are nervous wrecks when they start the approach.
The point that Oval was trying to make in respect of experience is valid. I have flown with many excellent FOs who have remarkable backgrounds, often with 1000s of hours in command, are clearly competent, and ready to move to the left seat straightaway. It's not the CX command course that gives them these attributes, they already have them.
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Raven,
yesterday my son got a sticker at his nursery, he went to the loo all by himself.
He came back bursting with pride ,could not wait to show it to me and everybody else ,at night even refused to take his sweater of.
Sounds familiar?
yesterday my son got a sticker at his nursery, he went to the loo all by himself.
He came back bursting with pride ,could not wait to show it to me and everybody else ,at night even refused to take his sweater of.
Sounds familiar?
Last edited by 711; 4th May 2012 at 08:46.
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Badair
Oh...you were serious? You wanted a response, I thought you were just making a drive-by smear?
Your single example means that all the other trainers at Cathay are implicated as well? All the other hard working trainers...the 99%....how about their work? Is their work something for you to scoff at?
Given the challenge faced by our trainers I would think they deserve your respect.....it's easy to take cheap shots. Oh, and speaking of editing, shouldn't your first sentence end with a colon?
711....
Thank you. Your comment goes a long way towards making my point about how far the bar has been lowered in our profession......I think that nursery school is just where you belong.
Oh...you were serious? You wanted a response, I thought you were just making a drive-by smear?
Your single example means that all the other trainers at Cathay are implicated as well? All the other hard working trainers...the 99%....how about their work? Is their work something for you to scoff at?
Given the challenge faced by our trainers I would think they deserve your respect.....it's easy to take cheap shots. Oh, and speaking of editing, shouldn't your first sentence end with a colon?
711....
Thank you. Your comment goes a long way towards making my point about how far the bar has been lowered in our profession......I think that nursery school is just where you belong.
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Joe..
I completely agree with your last comment. There is nothing like experience.
I'd like to offer two points:
Firstly, with regard to skill level, even Tiger Woods regularly hires a golf pro to look at his swing. If he/she is serious about elevating his game, a pro should always seek the constructive advise of another pro. That is what I like to think happens during an upgrade: another pro looks at your swing and offers suggestions to help you improve it. I think that 99% of our trainers do just that.
Secondly, hiring experienced pilots is something we are doing less and less these days. Recruiting only Cadet and/or low time pilots dilutes our pool of experience. Yes, we all had 300 hours once....but I think that our recruiting system should be seeking to hire cadet pilots in proportion to skilled ones. Our managers have used the same arguments made by many on this thread to lower the recruiting bar.
I completely agree with your last comment. There is nothing like experience.
I'd like to offer two points:
Firstly, with regard to skill level, even Tiger Woods regularly hires a golf pro to look at his swing. If he/she is serious about elevating his game, a pro should always seek the constructive advise of another pro. That is what I like to think happens during an upgrade: another pro looks at your swing and offers suggestions to help you improve it. I think that 99% of our trainers do just that.
Secondly, hiring experienced pilots is something we are doing less and less these days. Recruiting only Cadet and/or low time pilots dilutes our pool of experience. Yes, we all had 300 hours once....but I think that our recruiting system should be seeking to hire cadet pilots in proportion to skilled ones. Our managers have used the same arguments made by many on this thread to lower the recruiting bar.
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Raven,
Re read your post, too many incorrect uses of the question mark. Silly boy.
So stating a fact is a drive by smear is it?
I could give you hundreds more examples of silly check questions, but I get the feeling your so blinkered I would be wasting my time.
I am having a pop at the training system that allows certain individuals to massage their own egos at the expense of others trying to get on with their job.
Also raven, you are what's wrong with this profession, your inability to accept anybody else's opinion because your head is so far up your arse, this coupled with your far superior attitude. Can't wait til you retire.
Oh, and speaking of editing, shouldn't your first sentence end with a colon?
So stating a fact is a drive by smear is it?
I could give you hundreds more examples of silly check questions, but I get the feeling your so blinkered I would be wasting my time.
I am having a pop at the training system that allows certain individuals to massage their own egos at the expense of others trying to get on with their job.
Also raven, you are what's wrong with this profession, your inability to accept anybody else's opinion because your head is so far up your arse, this coupled with your far superior attitude. Can't wait til you retire.
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Badair....an apt moniker.
I get it.... you think that all the trainers at Cathay are bad. You have nothing but bad examples of bad trainers. There are no good ones? The vast majority who go to work every day and put in a 100% effort to make a positive contribution are not up to your high standards.
It's not me who has the inferiority issues.
Oh, and when you punctuation is perfect, then criticize my mine. Hypocrite.
Unfortunately for you, you're going to have to wait nine years for me to retire.
I get it.... you think that all the trainers at Cathay are bad. You have nothing but bad examples of bad trainers. There are no good ones? The vast majority who go to work every day and put in a 100% effort to make a positive contribution are not up to your high standards.
It's not me who has the inferiority issues.
Oh, and when you punctuation is perfect, then criticize my mine. Hypocrite.
Unfortunately for you, you're going to have to wait nine years for me to retire.
Last edited by raven11; 4th May 2012 at 13:17.
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Both fair points Raven but as others are trying to say, there are too many individual trainers that don't approach it this way. We have some very good trainers who are genuinely interested in helping and a pleasure to fly with but is there anybody in CX that hasn't had training or a check from a trainer whose sole intention is to demonstrate what a superior pilot he is by pointing out your every trivial mistake?
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Raven,
Sorry, who's the hypocrite?
As I said before raven.......I am criticising the SYSTEM.
I don't care how long it is til you retire old man, I am just looking forward to it. Bit sad really you feel the need to go all the way to 65, I guess you don't have much of a life, but I guess your going to tell me how great your life is though.
Oh, and when you punctuation is perfect, then criticize my mine. Hypocrite.
Sorry, who's the hypocrite?
As I said before raven.......I am criticising the SYSTEM.
I don't care how long it is til you retire old man, I am just looking forward to it. Bit sad really you feel the need to go all the way to 65, I guess you don't have much of a life, but I guess your going to tell me how great your life is though.
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I agree Joe....
But isn't that the case in every system? I think a certain Chief Pilot, who while Training Manger on the 744, deserves credit for culling the system of some of the more infamous examples of bad trainers. Shouldn't we give credit for that?
Unfortunately, some are only capable of posting venom. No amount of evidence will satisfy them.
But isn't that the case in every system? I think a certain Chief Pilot, who while Training Manger on the 744, deserves credit for culling the system of some of the more infamous examples of bad trainers. Shouldn't we give credit for that?
Unfortunately, some are only capable of posting venom. No amount of evidence will satisfy them.